Star Wars: Andor


  • I watched the first three episodes today. Absolutely loved it. As good as the Mandalorian but a different vibe, more Cyberpunk/Bladerunner than space opera Wild West. If only the Book of Boba Fett had been this good.... sigh. And now I am interested in the character of Cassian Andor, whereas in Rogue One I was not. I wonder how this series will affect my opinion of Rogue One if I rewatch it after this ends.

    So many ideas for model making and wargaming from this show. Pretty much the perfect color palette and designs for my costuming tastes. 

    What do you think of it? 



  • I to watched the first three episodes, Disney seems to have cracked it with the Star Wars TV shows compared to their attempts at the movies (aside for Rogue One). I can see people disliking the slow pace of the first three episodes, but it worked for me.

     

     


  • Just finished the first three episodes and imho this show is amazing. The acting is great, the tension was in spot and the whole production value is astounding. I am a huge Star Wars Fan since more than 30 years and this feels so good after the underwhelming Kenobi series. It's hard for me to say this about a series about Obi Wan, but it was mediocre at best. It had some amazing moments but I don't think its worth a rewatch.

    Andor on the other hand made me interested in Cassian even tough he was the character I liked the least in Rogue One. The whole look of this show is so gritty and down to earth (as far as this is possible for a Galaxy far far away) and the plot makes sense ( to this point).

    This show hast more planing and production time than Mando, Kenobi and Book of Boba Fett together and it shows. Rogue One is my favourite Star Wars content of the Disney era with Mando following, but if Andor keeps up this quality....

    After Rise of Skywalker nothing could really hype me (besides Mando kind of) like this show. Disney give us more of this mature and grim Star Wars


  • As my distinguished John & Andreas, watched the 3 episodes already available a bit afraid cause of the previous Disney SW-related tvshows: the Book of B. and Obiwan K. (both are just fine to my book..)... but I have to confess I love Andor.

    Cassian is quite an anti-hero like Mando, but with quite an interesting behaviour and background I always wish to know more about. To my mind, Rogue One should have been a real trilogy instead of a standalone film (but what a standalone).

    I have been a fan of the Saga till the Prequels but .. the last Trilogy was the worst stuff I did experiment to date. Standalone movies and tvshows did really save the franchise to my humble mind. 


  • @Andreas Mayrhofer 

    Tales of the Jedi (I & II), Dark Empire and The Last Command should be adapted as tvshow (for TotJ) and as animation (for the last couple).. those were grim and mature... but way too grim and mature for Disney I think.


  • I watched the first 2 episodes. Yeah, as others have said I am really liking it. Though I enjoyed Book of Boba and Kenobi and it sounds lke some of you didnt. So maybe I am an easy audience with Starwars tv. 

    Rogue 1 was probably my favorite Starwars movie... and I will admit that I teared up. But... I also like Solo, and I know a lot of people did not. For that matter I didnt mind the prequels, and The Force Awakens stuff wasnt horrible. I mean it wasnt great, but I still had fun seeing them all at the Theatre. 

    I play in a Starwars Edge of the Empire game, and our Starwars DM hated them and they dont exist in his universe (the Rise of Skywalker stuff that is), he didnt like the prequels but because of the Clone Wars Show, and Rebels and Bad Batch he admits that they do exist... :)


  • @William Redford 

    Solo was not that bad ... even if Disney writers changed most of Han former Expanded Universe background to fit the New SW Universe, almost as bad as Lucas little manoeuvrings and negations for SW Special Editions and the Prequels, but I could live with... on the other hand, the Holdo maneuver nullified a New Hope and Return of the Jedi, why risking the whole Rebel fleet when a mere Corellian blockade runner is enough to destroy the Empire's biggest toy?

    Played WEG Star Wars back to the day and still owned all of published material till they faced bankrupcy and lost the franchise to WotC... quite a great game (D6 System was quite a refreshing idea back then) that established 100% of the groundword of what later became the SW Expanded Universe. Funny fact Zahn used WEG sourcebooks when drafting The Last Command. 


  • @Steven StGeorges yeah I owed a ton of WEG Starwarsin highschool.  I don't think I ever played WEG Starwars though, my group was into palladium and that was like 94% of our gaming. Rifts, Robotech, TMNT and PFRPG. 

    my favorite WEG book was the Desthstar technical readout manual and the modifications book. "Stock light freighter? There ain't no such thing". And I never got a chance to play a Quixotic Jedi... 

     

    Years later I played the wizards d20 Starwars. Actually started out as a lot of fun. My friend and I were outlaws. We had the infamous feat. I made my character. Was really happy with him. My friend was a lazy sod and wasn't prepared for the game. So he had a great idea. We would be twin brothers. So he took my character sheet and copied it exactly. Except for the attributes... which he rerolled since we weren't identical twins. I didn't watch him roll.., but I should have since he supposedly rolled higher in every stat. So his character was identical to me, but better in every way. 

    despite that, the game was fun... we had a Jedi in our group, and it's good we did as the dm was new to storytelling and had us fight these gungand that were level 6.... we were level 2... so we were getting our butts kicked until the Jedi made it in to melee... 

     

    snyway the game was fun until we got in to space combat and then it kind of came to a screeching hold. It was sooo slow and boring thst one of the players turned on skinemax near porn in the middle. We still talk about the game that was sooo bad that it devolved into porn...


  • @William Redford i am glad you liked TBOBF and Kenobi and It's great to see people enjoying Star Wars content. It's a universe we all love.

    But for me these two series especially are the pinnacle of bad decisions Made by Disney. The Kenobi series had some glorious scenes, like everything with Hayden and Ewan, but even more glaring issues. The plot holes are utapauan big, Bail Organa is depicted as completely incompetent and except for Ewan the acting wasn't that good. 

    My 10 year old yelled during Andor Episode 3 "Dad, Look, they are taking cover! They don't just stand and shoot at each other!" Even this small firefight with just a dozen people is more intense than all shootouts in Kenobi or Boba Fett. As a former Infantry only the thought of the battle on Jabiim makes me shake my head. What were they thinking?! Yes, we are trained soldiers lets just walk into the fatal funnel, fire at them and run just towards them like complete idiots.... There is so much more but my english isn't good enough to explain all of my gripes.

    Andor is the step in the right direction. Tony Gilroy said he isn't a Star Wars fan but He loves making good stories. This should be the goal: make good stories that happen to be in the Star wars universe. Don't make Star Wars for the sake of making something labeled Star Wars. The other series feel more like Fan made fanction with their overextensive use of legacy characters and focus on them.

    Can't wait for Episode 4


  • I quite agree with your comments@Andreas Mayrhofer

    With all the combat veterans around right now that could use the work it is a criminal waste to not employ and actually listen to their military technical advisor when making tv shows and movies. 

    Same with policing.

    Part of the disconnect between civilians and military/law enforcement is complete incomphrension of correct use of force, tactics, weapons, martial arts and even violence in general. 

    It isn't just about suspension of disbelief in entertainment. Lazy, inaccurate portrayal of these things reinforces incorrect information in the minds of people who later wrongly judge others based on that false information. 

    Andor is not perfect but I certainly “recognized” those Corporate Security troops and some of their mistakes from my time in law enforcement.  I may have even been a bit like the Inspector myself back in the day... but I think he is going to be a cautionary tale of what could have happened to me if I had not had some good mentoring from senior officers. 

    Without discussing spoilers I have to be careful what I say here... more information with spoiler tags over on Dakkadakka...

    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3390/764655.page


  • As a Star Wars fan I always preferred the darker, more intelligent story of the Prequel Trilogy to the Flash-Gordon-esque Original Trilogy, and Rogue One really brought back the 'war' to Star Wars after the 'Farce' Awakens tried to make everyone forget Episodes I-III and return the story to hokey Flash Gordon escapism. I thought Cassian was a good character even then, a different kind of hero who had to make moral decisions all the time and sometimes had to do bad things to fulfil a greater good. Thus I was most interested to hear the original news that he was getting his own prequel series. Some other fans were whining about how he supposedly didn't deserve a prequel series, but given said fans also complained at the 'lack of character development' in Rogue One, surely Andor would be the main way to remedy that? I'm glad to hear that it does seem to have achieved that goal in a way pleasing to viewers.

    Additionally, after the Book of Boba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi developed severe cases of plot holes I was worried about whether they would try and sabotage Andor for similar reasons (distinctly woke reasons), so I've been hesitant to watch it (not to mention I'm waiting for the possibility of it arriving on DVD because I despise streaming services), but I'm pleased to hear that reviews so far have been positive and that the series seems to retain the more mature feel of Rogue One. 


  • Until now it seems a good show, first two episodes were a little slow, but the 3rd was really OK, seeing how Andor was pratically press ganged in the rebellion, with the rebel spook outsmarting the corporate "cops", and a realistic firefight, the trick against the shuttle was great, and the corporate inspector's shocked face was priceless. Naturally it's probabile that all this mess surely will attract ISB's attention.....


  • @William Redford 

    Had a lot of negative returns regarding WotC's SW rpg.. and especially about space combat. So negative a lot of gaming clubs just switched back to WEG if possible. But space combat always had been the weakness of most of Scifi rpgs since the beginning: lucky you, you never had to experiment old stuff like Space Opera, Spacemaster, Traveller, Universe and so forth.. all of them glorious rpgs but sharing the same problem with space combat, for instance in order to solve them a DM needed a Texas Instruments TI-30 calculator and enough draft paper to fill in a small square... and hours of calculation thanks to numerous reference charts. 😅

    But as long as fun was part of the game... 

    @Andreas Mayrhofer 

    Realistic warfare always was and still is the main weakness of the SW franchise till... Rogue One. Imperial Stromtroopers do wear a pretty useless body armour, Rebel soldiers do not.. but they do enjoy employing trenches when facing AT-ATs and AT-STs without any consistent heavy support (like using Xwings or even Y-wings to defend Hoth instead of useless speeders)... or Poe sending slow obsolete MG-100 StarFortresses SF-17 (err... what did happen to those lovely and fast B-Wings of old by the way?).. 


  • @Steven StGeorges I never played traveler but owned a bunch of the books... a theme with me I guess. I had the little black box and the little white box that was gifted to me by a friend. I bought the red (multi-colored) bigger box set which I think was a revised or new edition... one thing I loved about traveler was the table for making planets. And I would make endless planets when I was bored. 

    I also liked the character generation and the fact that the character could die before the game ever started... I would still have my traveler books, but they got lost in a move from California to Florida to Puerto Rico to Venezuela. Or on the return move s year later to Maryland. But I did not find out they were lost in thst move until 10 years later... when I moved back to the US from Indonesia... that could have been a roll on the traveler table... Rather than "killed by insurgents" in  a "police action"


  • @William Redford 

    Have fun there 

    https://www.batintheattic.com/traveller/

    🧐


  • @Andreas Mayrhofer I get that. I dont know why, but I am pretty easy with starwars. I guess I just like it and can enjoy it despite it not being great all the time... or even good, or even mostly bad... ;)

    But I do recognize that bad stuff is bad...

    as a somewhat related aside, I am currently super-heroed out... Meaning I cant stand anything super hero currently. I think it is just the oversaturation of it. I used to really like the genre, but now I generally pass. Still havent seen "She-Hulk" or "Hawk guy and his Special Friend". Didnt see that last Thor movie... though I did see Mobius as it looked more horror than super hero... but boy was that bad.... The shows, Everyone says are great, but I just have no interest. I got that way with Zombies and Vampires too... So I feel eventually they will swing back in to my interest zone. I can see Starwars doing that to some people too. Especially if you find the recent stuff mediocre or worse... Like for every Bad DC movie, there is a decent Marvel movie... but I still struggle to find motivation.

    Oh, and since I am on a wierd Tangent. I did watch the New Mutants... (I think thats what it was called) and really liked it. It had Arya Stark in it. Too bad it doesnt look like that will get a sequel. 


  • @William Redford You luckly lot it all sounds good, but my Eileen would never allow another pay to view, and to be honest I would`nt either. Got prime, and Netflix, and spoilt for choice with those, still its a  crime what "Disney "OWN, including the forth comming, Aliens TV program. Still only so much time in a night.


  • @Geoff Maybury Yeah, We have Netflix. Got Disney Plus and HBO max as a free for a year thing when we upgraded our cell phones. My Son is  a student so gets a Discount for Hulu, so we have Hulu. He also signed up for Showtime. He pays for it, but means I got it... and my daughter is a student so we get a discount on Amazon Prime. 

    Its funny though, what I watch most is Tubi. Which is a free streaming thing through ROKU TV. and SHUDDER, which is also through ROKU but not free. Though its only like $4.99/ Month. The best thing about all of them is I can also access everything through my phone no matter where I am.

    I work from home. SO during they day I will have something on in the background. Usually a horror movie. And I prefer 70's, 80's or 90's horror. But i seem to have gone through everything the above channels/apps have... :( 


  • Even with only Amazon Prime, Netflix and Disney+ there are more good shows to watch than time to watch them. So very, very different from my youth... where we only had a limited amount of time around the fire at night and only two different story tellers, both of whom were ancient and often forgot parts of their story. We did have three until Uncle Grog got drunk and stumbled into a nest of baby T-Rex’s. 

    She-Hulk has been... very disappointing. Hawkeye was alright though.


  • @Steven StGeorges They don't call it "plot armour" for nothing, imagine if the protagonist was killed in the first 5 minutes of the movie by a competent foe....


  • @Alessio De Carolis 

    You can show competent but unsuccessful.

     

    It raises the stakes, increases tension and concern for protagonists. Of course most folks do not want Luke to die in the Death Star trench run but they want to feel like he might otherwise why not just fast forward to the end?

    Even if the audience assumes the protagonist will live they can be on the edge of their seats wondering what the protagonist might lose if not hisor her life... what price must he or she pay to overcome the competent foe. Surely it will be a higher price than overcoming incompetent ones... but just how high? That helps create the suspense.

     


  • I like how armor is handled in Starwars Edge, and the others in that series of rpg. 

    it doesn't make you harder to hit, but let's you absorb more of the hit, it adds soak. So if you have a soak of 4 and take 4 or less damage you are unharmed. But if you take more than 4, then whatever goes through is applied to your wound threshold. Not having armor isn't a deal breaker... like you don't instantly die... but having armor certainly helps survive. 



  • The character above is pretty experienced so can be though of as a higher level character. She is wearing Mandalorian armor so has a high soak. (6) but her main strength is her damage ability. With her pistols she is doing 17 damage. So on most enemies she is doing one shot kills often. 


  • @Grumpy Gnome 

    Indeed my good friend, the SW franchise is still linked to some late 70s proper fad, when heroes were supposed to go thru' epic and heroic death and not dying miserably (or too realistically) -even when underdoing stupid and silly, but so casual, things; they were considered as immortal in most ways... some recollection of the Western movie genre (a genre Sam Peckinpah "killed" or "rejuvenated" with his awesome The Wild Bunch) or the War film genre both filled with flaws like Deus ex-machinae and clichés (like the perpetual "Good Guys always prevail and Bad ones always lose in the end"... or "they got married and lived happily ever after"). 

    The death of Han Solo was so .. very predictable at best but de facto so meaningless and cliché.

    And what about the Last Jedi most tragicomic moment; when Luke, using the rediscovered long-lost Fallanassi Similifuturus* (or Force projection) technique (a technique noone ever heard about nor use it... like Obiwan, Yoda or even Palpatine by the way) after warning Rey about dangers related to ("No do not use it, it would kill you"), just appeared from out of the blue to challenge his nephew, becoming New Order forces main target... in order to buy time for the Rebels to escape Hoth.. er.. Crait.. to fight another day...

    (*Similifuturus ? Was I the sole person wondering about the very Harry Potter-esque origin of such a term? Was it an intentional way to get to Millenials, former HP readers and now the main audience of the new trilogy?)

    "Exhausted, Luke dies peacefully on Ahch-To, becoming one with the Force" ...

    Good or bad death? A logical and realistic death (since he used a technique well aware he was going to die thereafter)? Or one of the various hissy fits from a clearly jaded and blatant numpty director? Or just another intentional way to surf over nostalgia? Or to add a Games of Thrones ambiance? 

    To my mind, to respect the 70s fad, an epic and heroic death should have been Luke (and Leia?) facing Palpatine and Ben one last time... sacrifying himself to bring his nephew back to the good side of Force so he can side with Rey to fight Palpatine opening a new era. 

    Now back to Rogue One, an interesting twist within the franchise, too grim ad mature for some since heroes did undergo real epic and heroic death, every single one of them..

    A pity Disney did not see potential over here: a trilogy would have been a better option than a fast & furious-like standalone. Rogue One fails to define its liveliest characters in ways that would make them popular. This is one area in which The Force Awakens is a better movie. Rogue One is so devoted to its multilayered, faster-than-light-moving plot that it cannot afford enough time to give its characters the breathing space they need to come across as a great team (à la Guardians of the Galaxy but more grim), as opposed to a bunch of strangers who work pretty well together despite ungodly pressure.

    The sense of all these unsung heroes struggling to assert their values in a cruel universe comes through loud and clear. That so many characters have been pushed to the margins of galactic life or banished themselves there after a soul-crushing disappointment gives their decisions a grave, poignant quality that is lacking in other SW movies, even the good ones. "We've all done terrible things in the name of the rebellion," as Cassian said. The film adds much-needed shading to the Rebel Alliance, which has both moderate and "militant" elements that don't trust each other and often work at cross-purposes. This is the first time in the saga that convinces us that characters do live in an actual civilization, with rules and traditions and a sense of history and religion that they measure themselves against.

    With Rogue One, SW moved from the casual and family friendly Space Opera to a more adult and grim War film genre: warfare is dirty, murky and gung-ho battle scenes do evoke iconic images of the chaos of Normandy and Vietnam mixed with visuals reminding me of "A Bridge too far", "Battle of Britain"... or "Enemy mine"

    That's why I do really hope Andor is going to set again the cat amongst the pigeons, especially after the atrocious last instalment of the SW franchise, but I am still doubtful about.


  • Bravo@Steven StGeorges bravo Sir! Well said indeed. Reading that post reminds me just how much of a kindred soul I find you to be. 👏🏻


  • @Grumpy Gnome 

    Thanks GG, just expressing my point of view, and if some are most into the entertainment stuff, no trouble about actually. I will not criticise nor blame them for, we are all adult persons able to share and understand different viewpoints. 


  • @William Redford Lost in Moves, All my D20 Starwars Books + the original Metal boxed figure sets and original two rule books. Eileens German Shepard in amber walking stick and numerous books. 2nd Move War of the worlds rules and models Original paper Car Wars and Ogre, Leviaten metal and plastic Fasa. Figures.3rd Move, Rule box set for Project Z, some figure boxes and some original War  Game Foundry.

    Worst ever loss, rear shunt of my Jeep, by large van, just after doing a favor for a friend by puting on a large demo game for the "Air Training Corps" of our "Starship troopers display game. The cadets  had helped me pack( metal with plastic), senic boards not securred. Result lots of little broken pieces, don`t know who cried more Eileen or me. Knocked the heart out of Starship troopers, I  had every book,wargame and RPG, sold the lot, just couldn`t face rebuilding such a vast ammount.


  • @Geoff Maybury yeah... that sounds awful... the closest thing I have ever come to that is my miniature shelves were taken off the book cases and put in the unfinished basement floor so we could paint my office. 

    my blind old pug, zoey, decided to walk through the miniatures... back and forth. You could actually see her path in the aftermath. The lord of the rings minis got the worst of it... 3 years later... 4? And she is still here and kicking at just under 17... 

     


  • Ouch guys, sorry to hear that.


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