The Gap

  • This has bothered me for a bit, but with the appearance of WGA digital products that could fall into the era, I think we should at least discuss the 400 year range gap between Blood Oaths (end of the Viking Era in the mid-11thC, around 1066) and Renaissance. Opinions widely vary on dates, but what most people think of is mid-late 15thC. Certainly in a military sense we're talking a phase change between medieval armies and the pike and shot era. 1452 is a convenient date, being both the introduction of moveable type and the fall of Constantinople, though matchlocks - which really ushered in the change - date from around 1475.

    So I think we could do with another range to cover the proper medieval era of the Crusades, Hundred Years' War, The Anarchy, the Genpei War, the Mongol Invasions of everywhere, the Barons' War, various major succession wars, any amount of border scraps and so on and so forth. The Norman Conquest probably belongs to Blood Oaths as the tail end of the Viking Era, though; it was largely fought with the same weapons and tactics between the same peoples. Using the First Crusade as a general starting point would work.

    "Knights' Honour" maybe? Cavalry dominated the era in both Europe and Asia.

  • Normans are well covered by Victrix boxed sets, either infantry and cavalry, perhaps mongols could be interesting, also bcz, contrary to Horrywood's beliefs, they wore armour and equipments similar to chinese's ones, being a well orgainized army, and not a disorganized horde. Other sets could be conversions ones for either first and second crusades, either STL or plastic, for yet existing sets, the armours didn't changed a lot from the norman conquest and first crusade, only the surcoats became more widespread, and could be used also for the first ECW, btw Stefan and Matilda (as seen in Brother Cadfael's serie)

  • @Alessio De Carolis Loved Cadfeal`s programs a priest (detective) it was great. 

  • @Alessio De Carolis Fireforge largely cater for the early to middle period and Perry are good for the tail end of it, but there IS a conspicuous gap in plastic for the 13th-14th Century, which is a little odd.. These are some of the most gorgeous looking European armies of all times! Significant amounts of plate, but still using shields and guns are mostly things of novelty aside from cannons in sieges.

    Edward I's wars against the Welsh and the Scots also fall into this period, as do much of the Reconquista, some of the Guelph/Ghibelline stuff, lots of Ottoman vs anyone next to them... and not to forget those cheeky Mongols.

    The Matilda/Steven civil war is usually referred to as The Anarchy (1138-1153). Very much one of the conflicts that I think should be covered, though there are somewhat suitable plastics from Victrix, Fireforge and others. While the gear is still recognisably Norman/Early Crusader it has the common civil war advantage of same sets covering both sides. Cavalry is more important than in 1066 and crossbows are now common, with some longbows.

  • @Mark Dewis Both run past those points, so no gap exists. The names are a bit misleading though.

  • @Estoc The text for Blood Oaths specifically says "from the fall of Rome to the age of the Vikings". Viking age ends in the 11th century.  The most generous definitions of "Renaissance" do not push back further than the mid-14th century, but as I have noted there are solid military reasons to set the start of the period as late 15thC. In any case the line's text explicitly says 15th to 17th Century.

    The peasants previewed in the Digital Tribe can be used for 14th C but are basically 15thC; the Monks are good right through to Renaissance and even 20th Century in some places (as well as Classic Fantasy), so are hardly a benchmark. I suspect they mostly got labelled "Blood Oaths" so that line did get a civilian release for December.

    I'm cool if WGA want to include the medieval period in the Renaissance or Blood Oath lines, but at some point that needs to be made explicit, or another line added.

    They will at some point need to add a Modern line anyway. World in Flames and Death Fields are not going to suit the Modern Operators or other post WW2 projects. And indeed the release schedule has the name "Modern".

  • @Mark Dewis like it is written above, I don't really see a gap in the Early Middle Ages plastic sets, with some companies like victrix with their Normans and Fireforge. The Perry sets, and the Warlord sets can cover the Late Middle Ages. 

    However, go for it. Really. Quality products will always have a market, as one can see by a lot of the Wargames Atlantic plastic sets.

  • @Vitor Soares  there is a definite late 13thC to late 14thC gap. Perry have some Agincourt sets (1415) but to get figures for Crecy or Poitiers you'd need to kitbash with crusader lines as well as add armour pieces like knee and elbow cops. Their Agincourt infantry aren't too bad, but again need kitbashing with earlier sets to be convincing.

    In any case, I am talking about a gap in the Wargames Atlantic ranges. Most of their existing historical ranges do cover the same time periods as Victrix, Perry, Warlord, Gripping Beast etc. Otherwise we would not have Irish, Late Romans or Afghans.

  • @Mark Dewis I understood what you wrote, that is why I agreed that WA should go ahead and star with that peiriod range. 

    On the subject at hand, I have kitbashed almost every set I bought in the last five years, historical or not. I like to do it and it is very for a company to make a kit that everyone sees as perfect. However, as I wrote above, a quality kit will always sell, and WA has done a lot of quality kits. 

  • @Mark Dewis yeah it's based off the peasants.

  • I guess it gets back to this: a "Dark Age" range has a look and feel to it that is not the same as a Roman era one (even though you can kitbash, and there are common parts, but is also not really Medieval either. Renaissance armies are even more distinct, with arquebuses displacing other missiles and leading to a general decline in full armour.

    The other notable gap in the range is Rebublican Roman to early Roman Empire era ("Second Empires"? "Vox Populi"?) roughly 600 years of interesting stuff.

  • There are definitely missing gaps in history in our product lineup but that's just because we don't have any sets for them. As we grow we'll add more ranges. 

  • "Interwar" is another sort of gap, but realistically sets will either fit into Great War or World Ablaze (or both) there. We already have some kits that span the gap (such as the French Infantry) and for the most part there is no kit that would *only* fit into 1919-1938. All of the interwar tank designs that saw action in the interwar period, for example (and that largely only means Italians in North Africa, the Spanish Civil War and Japan in China and Russia), lasted until WW2.

    (Edit) HAVING SAID THAT... this is the era of Pulp action, Prohibition and so on, so a (semi-historical) line that focuses on that might be justified. Roaring 20's ladies' fashion is also unique to here.  

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