Conquistador/16th Century Infantry Progress

Comments

Vitor - March 28, 2021

Fantastic to see a Montante in the set. Will definitely buy.

The montante was used by Portuguese gentry overseas and there are a few recording of it being used in battle on the ship decks like for example the Battle of Shancaowan in 1522.
Another example is on the tapestries of D.Joao de Castro where some of the Leaders carry a Montante over the shoulder. It was not exclusive to the german or swiss nor it is a fantasy weapon as claimed before.

Ignacio Andres Troche Martinez - March 23, 2021

I know I’d rather have pikes than halberds. I’d really love to use this as a tercio set as well as conquistador.
Also for the bodies, what exactly is the ratio to armored individuals to unarmored? I know for a conquistador set I would much prefer a massive amount of heavily armored individuals. Also, are these conquistadors not wearing socks or shin armor? Their lower legs look really bare.

Thrym - February 19, 2021

@Henry, You do realize that they aren’t censoring your posts because it doesn’t matter how much you disagree with their choices? Literally not at all?

Axel - February 19, 2021

@Henry
Its perhaps a bit off topic, but where do you find information about Spaniards wearing mail after ~1500?

On fashion & trousers…
As a conquistador set I assume this set should work for the era from around 1520-1550, as in Cortez & Pizarro, perhaps even Cortez (and the rest of the Imperials) before Tunis & Algier. This means slashings are already in fashion, at least generally. Looking at the (admittedly fully European) Pavia paintings its hard to see any difference between Spaniards and Landsknechts, and 1525 is well in the era the set covers. I agree that utility trumps fashion in the Americas, though, and any Conquistadores vs. Aztecs set should be on the early end of that timeline (18-21), but here the “utility trumps fashion” for the plastic set kicks in. With a knife and 5 min of work one can probably shave the slashings off the trousers and make them look more in style. Putting these upon slim trousers with greenstuff in the other direction is a pain.

Henry - February 18, 2021

Correction: I’m sure some fantasy gamers probably do go clamming, but what I should have typed is ‘… clamouring …’ .

Henry - February 18, 2021

First, points to WA for continuing to post comments which some companies might censor for their sometimes critical character. This shows a refreshingly honest and open customer relations disposition – but…

I sit by my criticisms (I’d stand by them, but typing would be harder):

1. Again, without those mail shirts, which were widely worn in Europe too (I have 15mm Italian Wars armies, and my old Minifigs Spanish pikemen and genitors, made in the 1990s, are accurately portrayed wearing such armour), the bodies in this set don’t accurately reflect typical contemporary equipment, and surely that’s what historical gamers want to see on their figures.

2. Most of the bodies are depicted in slashed knee breeches, which were only beginning to make fashion inroads at this time.

3. Anachronistic helmets have been included because of the demands of fantasy gamers who have no interest in historical accuracy. Without them unnecessarily occupying space on the sprue there’d be room for additional historically authentic helmets, such as more cabasset variants. Those gamers clammering for Warhammer-inspired components could simply wait for sets in which such gear isn’t anachronistic (e,g, border reivers), or the proposed accessory sets, to be released.

4. As I’ve pointed out, halberds were only used by the Spanish to distinguish a few specialists, and two-handed swords (again, included at the insistence of fantasy gamers) were a German/Swiss preference. Halberds were used in numbers by the Portuguese, but unfortunately this set won’t work for that nationality because the boarding axes and bladed half-pikes they also used are absent. Without the anachronistic parts, and with fewer halberds, there would probably have been room on the sprue for them (and perhaps a helmet pattern our resident expert on the Portuguese informs us was unique to that nation), thereby extending the utility of the set in a historically plausible manner.

5. The slashed knee breeches render these figures unusable for the late 15th century.

6. It’s a pity that the company policy revealed in WA’s most recent post here moves the focus of its historical sets from authenticity to broad (Warhammer and generic) appeal. If WA wants to continue to sell to historical gamers it should maintain the emphasis on making its historical sets as true as possible to their nominal subjects, otherwise any gains in sales to fantasy players and those players of historical games who take a more ‘relaxed’ attitude to historical fidelity – many of whom are primarily gamers, rather than history buffs – might be lost in missed sales to ‘hardline’ historical gamers. WA might still come out ahead financially, but it’s a gamble.

There’s an obvious error in my In the previous post: assuming this set will contain 40 or so figures, Marc’s army will actually be about 200 strong; fine if it was to be at 1:1, but for a mass battles rule set way off the Marc :- ).

Anyway, I’ve said enough on this subject, and with WA doggedly refusing to concede any of my points we’re just going in circles, so I’ll just sit back and hope that future historical sets are more… historical*.

*I think I’ll need to avoid using the ‘H’ word and its variations for at least a year after this.

Wargames Atlantic - February 17, 2021

Henry again although I understand what you are saying I think you are missing the point of plastic sets. In this set, there are bodies, weapons, and heads that are 100% accurate for 1520 Conquistadores. You may not have bodies in chainmail or the later campaigners who ditched their Euro clothing and adopted some native dress and sandals, but you will have historically accurate figures with the ratio of weapons you want. Later 15th century troops can be well-represented here as well. There are no fantasy parts in this kit. Fantasy games are welcome to use them. The joy of plastics is that there are so many extra parts you can take what you like and discard the rest. If you don’t want to buy the set because there are parts on the sprue that don’t fit your notion of the exact thing you are trying to represent, then don’t. Our aim is to have one sprue do a lot for a lot of folks otherwise it’s not worth doing.

Henry - February 17, 2021

While this set will undoubtedly appeal to fantasy gamers, those creating mid-16th century armies, and those who aren’t concerned with historical accuracy wanting to play the Conquest of Mexico 1519-21, it won’t work for ‘…die-hard historical…’ gamers collecting armies for the same campaign, Marc; the costumes, armour, and weapon mix simply aren’t correct.

Spanish armies in the Americas and Europe didn’t use the halberd in any numbers; a few small bodyguard and colour-party units yes, but mass units, no. In the New World Spanish forces consisted largely of rodeleros (sword and buckler men), with the bulk of the remainder carrying ranged weapons.

‘Kings of War (H)’ is a mass battles set of rules, which means that each unit represents hundreds or thousands of men. At that scale most of a Conquistador army should consist of Indian allies, with just a few bases of Spanish troops. Actual Spanish forces in the Americas usually numbered in the low hundreds, and were often just a couple of hundred strong; Indian allies made up the bulk of the warriors in a ‘Spanish’ army. Five boxes of these figures would give you about 100 of them, which is probably enough to field an entire army for KoW(H) representing many thousands or tens of thousands of men, moving your project firmly into the realm of fantasy.

I’m personally disappointed that WA seems to be allowing fantasy gamers and others without accurate, detailed historical knowledge of the subjects of their plastic historical sets to dictate the contents of those sets. After all, those gamers can use any historical set, whether authentic or not, but historical gamers are rarely able to use fantasy figures. Hopefully this won’t be the pattern for future releases.

Marc - February 11, 2021

Excellent work, as usual. I’m impressed, again, at Wargames Atlantic for making sets of figs with great versatility. This set can work for the die-hard historical set, historically-inspired wargamers, fantasy gaming or as parts for conversions (even sci-fi). Since the figs are plastic they can easily be converted. For those who want 18-foot pikes, they can snip the spears and add their own. For folks who just want a particular era of helmet, they can choose only those heads and not the others, since there is clearly a surplus of options to choose from. Great assortment of missile weapons, spears and swords. I personally might want a few more sword options included, maybe a powder horn/satchels/pouches that can be glued on (or not) as desired, but that would be a quibble and wouldn’t keep me from picking up this set. I definitely will be purchasing 5 (or more) boxes. You can easily create a complete, varied and game-viable force of conquistadores for Kings of War Historical (as I plan to do) with the simple purchase of just a few boxes. And your price per set is always better than other manufacturers for the large amount and variety of models per box. Truly, it’s refreshing to buy from a company that seems to care about their customers wants (via polls on what models to produce), and respectful of gamers’ budgets.

I can’t wait for the Aztecs! Thank you Wargames Atlantic! Keep doing what you do! And if you can get around to designing a set of 16th century Poles (both infantry and hussars) and Cossacks, I know I’d snatch up some of those, too.

Wargames Atlantic - February 8, 2021

Henry – I think you are missing the point here a bit and missing the great benefit of hard plastic sets. Because of the ability to combine various arm/weapon types with separate helmets the end user will be able to create figures that are appropriate for multiple uses without losing historical accuracy. Just because a later helmet is on the sprue doesn’t mean you HAVE to use it. The set will be accurate for use as earlier Conquistadores but with a few different weapons and heads also OPTIONALLY be accurate for others.