Trojan War Chariot

Hudson Adams Moderator
9/19/23, 2:49 PM

Discuss this First Empires Bronze Age set: https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/vox-populi/products/trojan-chariot-1-vote

Time to Make the Plastic!

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HM

H M
9/19/23, 11:38 PM

I'm loving what I see here! My main critique would be:

A) a hope that there are more potential warrior bodies

B) a suggestion that at least one of these bodies, and perhaps a head option or two (for warrior and driver) should be based on Hittite examples, to show an influence from central Anatolia. (And to depict Sarpedon if you want an Iliad based justification ;))

C) would also love to see some sea people style options, like what is on the 3d model kit.

I think the combination of these would give a really varied kit, and really help show off that style of warrior duels.

I'd also reckon taking a peek at some of the helmets here would be great, as some of them - what with horns and crests and what not- would be good options for plastic just because plastic is gonna be both strong, and easy rebonded after a break.

https://www.hellenicarmors.gr/en/armors/mycenaean/

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Brian Van De Walker
9/20/23, 6:01 AM

@H M Sea people would actually be more useful with the other WA sets planned for this line, Egypt hired sea people mercs.

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HM

H M
9/20/23, 8:12 AM

@Brian Van De Walker Sherden would work better with the Egyptian line, but the Sea Peoples in general came from varied backgrounds, with many seeming to have thier origins around the Aegean.

There is pretty solid evidence linking the Sherden with Sardinia and a very big maybe on a few other Italian links to Sicilians and Etruscans - but by and large there are solid links to the Aegean and non hittite Anatolia - which is exactly what this kit also represents. :)

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George Moss
3/9/24, 10:24 AM

I am excited by the prospect of the Dendra Panalopy fighters, questions, is the chariot the same sprue as the Skeleton Chariot kit? Will the horses for this kit be from the Horses with minimal tack kit?

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Mithril2098
3/9/24, 5:01 PM

a couple thoughts:

while in the past the dendra panoply was thought to be a charioteer armor, current archeological thought is that it was in fact used by heavy infantry. it was a myceanian armor, and they didn't really use chariots in war directly the way that the egyptians and assyrians did, rather more to just carry elite troops and commanders to the battlefield. there was some use of them in battle in earlier centuries (16th-14th centyury BCE), but the dendra panolpy that was found dates to right as they were stopping using them in battle. (and right as the historical and archeological record shoiws a marked increase in emphasis on organized infantry.) but no reason that there wasn't some overlap.
but, i'd suggest that there be unarmored crewmen included, perhaps a driver and an archer or javelin thrower for chariot. allowing players who want to simulate later periods or more historically accurate tactical organization to model the chariots seperate from the heavy amror infantry.

second, those shields don't really fit the 14th-13th century bce period this is set. archeological finds form the later bronze age myceane and related cultures generally show round shields, like these depictions from 'the warrior vase' found at the site of Mycenae itself.

and this reconstruction derived from such finds and the description of agamennon's shield from the Iliad.

earlier centuries used 'figure eight' shields, with a shape closer to that of the body of a chello..

and a form of tower shield closer to what is shown

indeed we have an image from a silver cup found in a burial that shows early warfare with both, but you'll notice that the warriors lack any sort of armor, most likely relying on their large shields alone for protection.

with a reconstruction of the battle scene done here:

most likely body armor like the dendra panoply replaced the need for such large shields, by moving the protection from a large unweildy tower shield onto the body itself, allowing a smaller lighter shield to be used for active defense and longer spears to be employed.

so shield wise i'd save those large tower shields for a lighter infantry unit box (as it would makes sense for less elite infantry without access to armor to use such older style shields), and give the armored warriors round shields with bronze facings.

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Brian Van De Walker
3/17/24, 6:22 PM

@George Moss I don't know about the horses, but from everything I have heard here and the FB group, yeah same Chariots as the boneheads, and hopefully it will be just chariots and maybe combined with infantry kit, since I am pretty sure the horses the Medetrrians had where not rideable breeds at that point.

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