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Wasteland Scavengers

  • IS

    What Death Fields really needs is a Scavenger set. Somthing that leans heavily on the gasmask, cloaks, and robes vibe (and can take on Frostgrave's Cultist box). Skirmish gamers have no issues getting their hands on autoguns and lasguns. What is needed is a scavengers set that dives hard into muskets, crossbows, blunderbuss, and jezzails. The kind of primitive weaponry that Mad Max should have devolved into but somehow abandoned the hard realism of 80's Road Warrior. Give me weaponry (and scrap armor, please make it scrap bits you can attach, not full torsos and legs) that could be manufactured by outlaws, outlanders, and ashwaste nomads from Necromunda. 

    If you give us cloaked and hooded scavengers, you give us nomads, cultists, sand folk, outlaws, refugees, space pirates, fremen, scavvies, skaven, chapter serfs, rebels, and so much more. If you keep the weaponry primitive, scrap manufactured, survivialist; folks will buy the kit just to arm any wastlander crew starting at the bottom. And if the weapons are basic enough they can be used interchangably in fantasy and sci-fi games. All I'm saying is don't empasize the AK-47s, we all have enough of those in our bit box.

    Give me bits to attach to a Space Orc Spawning, where an orc emerges from filth and a goblin hands him a sack of javelins made from scrap and a cracked blunderbuss. Those jezzails from the lizard man box are great, but only so many scavvies can have reptile claws... 

    A good scavengers set doesn't just let me make one crew, it helps me build several. And its worth buying again. I'm already on my second box each of Frostgrave cultists and wizards... and I dont even play Frostgrave. 

    When is somone going to make a whole sprew of molotov cocktails by the way? You think the poor man's grenade would get more play in skirmish gaming...

  • BV

    @INSURGENT Skirmisher The Damned are supposed to be space cultists that can be wasteland scavangers, space pirates, outlaws,etc.  and this is the second or third time I have heard calls for more dammit😆.

    Honestly though most folks think AKs right away when they hear/read "wasteland scavangers" and TBF in a 50 to 500 years or further  into the farish future setting, even one that is a total darkage post apoc, everyone using AKs makes more logical sense realistically than any of the late medieval and black powder weapons you mentioned (AKs and thier ammo are just too easy to make and maintian, plus ammo refilling and AK maintince is easy).

    Frankly, if we are talking scavangers and want all those weapons it would be smarter to do a Sir Walter Scott style Boar of Ardennes themed Death Fields Army (complete with fallen nuns) and maybe combined it with William II de la Marck's Watergeuzen since  William II was named after his bandit lord Great Grand Father and both lead less than savoiry outlaw style armies. You would have all the weapons you want that way as well as the cloaks and hoods, bonus points since one unit for that army would already exists given WA already has the Landsknechte ogres with scifi bits.

    That said you can get all those spare bits your looking for off ebay in the form of old WFB Empire and Scavern army bit lots (alot of folks sell those parts individually or in mixed lots) and frankly thats the best use for those old chunky bits since historical and realistic anime/manhwa style sculpting  looks better for fantasy wargaming.

  • IS

    Like I said, I'm on my second Frostgrave Cultist and Wizard box... It would be nice to see Wargames Atlantic in the same position with its sets. Ya I can troll ebay looking for blunderbuss, jezzails, wheelock pistols and matchlock muskets. But the reason the North Star sets were so useful to me is that they filled rolls on the D&D adventuring table and on the Skirmish wargaming table (Mordheim and Necromunda 95). Yes, I could get a box of Barron's war peasants, glue crossbows or lasguns to them, and play William Tell all day long, as you seem to be very interested. But when I try to stretch their use into the 41st millenium I'm left with another Imperial Guard regiment (a niche WA has already filled nicely) and not an autonomous warband (outlaw gang / wastelander). 

    As I clearly said before, there is no shortage of AK-47's (Autoguns) in our bit boxes. Or lasguns or bolters, for that matter. What we do lack is musketry to equip our Scavvie, Wastelanders, Nomad, and Indigenous hive dwellers. As well as the Landsknechte mercenaries that make the perfect Mordheim warband. The ogres are great but can we get some humans? The free companies set GW produced could easily be used as hive gangsters or space pirates. The WA Guards box is well on its way to filling this role, but again it lacks musketry of any kind (I've purchased it with gusto). 

    Maybe Deathfields (DF)  isn't the title Wasteland Scavengers should be under...? I like the heroic scale of DF and the equipment similarities to 40K. But I find the arena narrative of the franchise very imaginatively limiting and denies the kind of expansive sandbox that Necromunda 95 encourages you to break out of. There was nothing stopping the Necromunda 95 / Ash Wastes / Gorkamorka systems from expanding into the greater galaxy. And the freedom of a skirmish system should allow you build that narrative where ever you want and at any tech level. 

    The greatest argument for wasteland musketry comes down to autonomous production and varied success in scavenging. Yes, it's logical that everyone would use AK-47, 50-500 years into a post apocalypse. But eventually production gets knocked back to the stone age and folks need to make due. We're never going to forget how to make a musket, blunderbuss, or crossbow. But it may take an unreasonably long time to have the industrial capacity to make metal springs. The Chinese communists even had a hard time making reliable automatic weapons in the 1950's (Type 50) and they even had the Soviets helping them. 

    The 900 Lb gorilla in the room is that Northstar has made a Scavengers box for Stargrave and I have indeed purchased it. It is the set that keeps on giving and I'll never lack autoguns or gasmasks because of it. It's given me an Ashwastes Nomad Gang or the incognito raiders of my choosing. Unfortunately these miniatures are very clean. They look like professional techno hackers and not the radiation soaked trash scavengers of the wasteland ruins.

    In the end it's easier to add advanced technology than to take it away. If the available baseline is muskets, crossbows, jezzails, molotovs, chains, and javelins. Then an added autogun, laz-fusil, or breach loading shotgun becomes the best piece of scavenged wargear in the wasteland. Most models will probably transition out of archaic weapons as they advance but the temptation to equip new recruits cheaply will always be there. 

    The Lizard Man box comes closest to having this mix but the claws are problematic. I love the Afghans but they aren't culturally ambiguous enough. Mining tools and traps are also bits I wouldn't begrudge in a scavenger's set (boltcutters!!!).

  • timbus the thirteenth

    @INSURGENT Skirmisher this might sound odd, but I wonder if trench crusade might open up some options? obviously wga only has one """""compatible"""" kit, but a raggedy horde of slightly mutant weirdos wielding archaic firearms and pointy sticks definitely fits the bill. would also let them avoid too much overlap with the scavengers.

    also, for what it's worth, I agree the scavengers are weirdly high tech. I was trying to make some salvar chem dogs for my guard army (so, barely armed conscripts alongside proud grenadiers) and their guns genuinely look nicer than the ones from les grognards.

  • BV

    @INSURGENT Skirmisher Hmm unless we are talking 3D prints I don't even see the point right now since a full force will take years and aliens would be a better option for Death Fields at this point than another post apoc themed force but with less reliable weapons. Still think you should just use oldhammer bits😆.

    And no, honestly the "Dark age of tech decay" logic you hammerheads keep trying to use to justify things like WW1 steal press vehical designs and muskets in an age which should probably have incredably old hat quantum weapons is whats not realistic here (ie your arguement is kinda of false and 40k's version of future events doesn't make sense even with the absurd tech decay described in its lore to the point that its laughable).

    I say this because  we actully already know how tech decay works in real history. Western Civiliztion actually went through a full post apoc decline with Rome's decline and fall,  guess what? while Western Europe lost basic hygine, education, and medical practices, it kept on using steel swords, ballista, etc.* and only further developed, evolved, and replaced those weapons over the following centuries in a progressive manor (European nations developed and all had flintlocks and cannons before they truely rediscovered bathing across the board😆 I want you to think about that real hard before trying to counter me). 

    All that would happen in a post apoc sociaty of scavangers and such is that while people would die of illenses and health issues that had been treatable, curable and preventable earler, new ways of making gun springs, etc. would happen at a smithy level which is already slowly happening if not already happend since machine shops and better already exist that can make those things in a household garage. 

     The point is humanity will always hold onto to its best current personal sidearms if it can and try and improve upon them and find new ways to make them, particularly in a survival situation. So no, realistically they would have assualt rifles till a better weapon replaces the assualt rifle (if there wasn't something better already) not go back to muskets,etc.

    In fact the only time you might see an influx of "antique" style weapons like muskets in a "post apoc" event is at the start of the collapse of a highly regulated civilized society like modern Japan (Former PM Abe was shot by an elctrolock musket basicly because of gun laws), as centeral law with enforcement goes away you'll likely find more increasingly better newly made guns along with more fresh standard sized ammo, even among new recruits since all "survivors" would likely have an AK equvlient or better weapons at that point made and sold by post collapse gunsmiths**.

    *(the only weapon thing they "lost" was horse archery arguably and thats more of a skill set/martial art).

    **(you would also have emerging warlords who would be kickstarting civilization ironicaly albit with a feudalism, so after maybe at most 500 years you won't really have a post apoc situation with scavangers anymore really, there will be towns and cities making new stuff)

  • M

    My question is.. could you get the look and weapons you want by sticking WGAs age of reason militia musket arms onto the bodies of the fantasy kits, like the barons war peasants? Or the new Damned with their battered outfits?

    I feel like kitbashing between the fantasy, pulp, and historicals lines is going to be your most effective way to create a force like that.

  • BV

    @Mithril2098 He wants something heroic scale, I think he needs to look at North Star's more since I know they had a "pirate conversion" upgrade bits in metal for the Frostgrave GA crewmen and I think Fireforge's Samurai are more heroic.

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  • IS

    @timbus the thirteenth I am not familiar with the factions of Trench Crusade but some scurvy scavengers would definitely fit the aesthetic of that setting. 

    If you're playing an ongoing skirmish campaign, weaponry is always going to be upgraded and changed on your squad. But the real temptation with a new squad is to arm them as cheeply as possible in the initial recruiting using crossbows and muskets. As a fighter in the squad gains experience it's worth upgrading them to auto guns and shotguns. This is how it kind of plays out with scavvies, ratskins, ash waste nomads, general wastelanders, rat folk, some cultists, and scavengers in general. All of these are outlaw type squads on the fringes of civilization. The model selection we have at the moment won't let you get that low down dirty. We're supposing more integration into markets connected to civilization and success in scavenging than may not be the economic reality of a squad or even the narrative of the squad we want to tell.

    The other idea that we're not letting into the sandbox is eventually the development of rule sets for equipment production within the squad. Whatever the community structure, territory portfolio, or skill tree of these various outlaw scavenger squads, they aren't going to be producing industrial grade AK-47s from scratch. Their initial production is going to be crossbows, blunderbuss, molotovs, glaives, and javelins.         

  • IS

    @Mithril2098 if i was going to kit bash musketry from any set for wastelanders I'ed probably use the Afghans

  • IS

    @Brian Van De Walker I think I've made a case for general low tech wastelanders. Yes, there are some kit bash options. But I'm pushing for a set that makes an autonomous warband. WA is really good at making faux Imperial Guard units but I'm looking for something that fills the niche of a skirmish warband. The thing is, just in that niche of "Wastelander" there are a lot of things that this could provide a basis for. You have the Scavvies, Ash Waste Nomads, Cultists, and Ratskins that have existing skirmish rulesets. But the general moniker of Wastelanders or Scavenger has a lot of places it could fit right in and wouldn't look out of place. Road Warrior is an obvious place it would work. I saw some scavengers in Blade Runner 2049 that fit this DIY tech vibe pretty well. Gorkamorka is another place they would fit perfectly and lastly they would work as previously mentioned in a Chem Dog guard regiment. The whole look is a pretty stable Sci-fi staple and might even get some legs in WA's Pulp Adventure line. 

    As far as your assertion that any red blooded man can bend a spring in his garage, I don't disagree. The “auto repairer” is a static equipment item kept at a gang's hideout in Necromunda and sounds like a glorified autoCAD lathe. Those aren't the people we are talking about here though. When your looking at Scavvies, Ash Landers, Sewer Scavengers, and Comrade Red Grot’s Recycling Services, these are people on the fringes of society with little to no access to markets, that are fighting for their survival. That "fighting for survival" part is important because it's the reason we are fighting them in any skirmish scenario. They aren't here because they are successful and have weapons that work on the dunes, like Lazguns. Having significant baseline equipment options that wastelanders could produce from scrap, on bodies covered in rags & gas masks, gives you a squad that can only move up. And its always ready to recruit another cannibal with a crossbow. 

    If your going to tell me the window for this kind of social configuration is extremely limited, then I'll drop you in the woods and ask you to send me an email with only the materials you find there. In your lifetime you may eventually cast an iron spear head or corn blackpowder, but even in the year 40K, you're not making a laz-gun. The cyclopean inequality we see in most galactic or cyber punk settings creates massive deprivations on the bottom and on the fringes of civilization. This is also the place the majority of the violence occurs between small social groups fighting for vanishing resources. Yes, their success in raids will lead to AK-47s and Las-fusils. But there is no standard saying people won't fight for their survival until they have industrial firearms. We aren’t saying they will win, but they WILL fight. And when they do, many may be armed with weaponry crafted from whatever scrap is available. Until one day they can also score it big and find that legendary crate of AK-47s that falls off the back of a truck, or is buried under the desert sands. 

  • BV

    @INSURGENT Skirmisher Hobby wise, you have a case, which is GW exists as the big fish in a small pound.

    As far as reality goes you made a terrible case (like the worst case ever), still are (infact your examples are just getting worst, no one in real life is going to recruit a cannibal knowingly, you kill cannibles right off the bat if you can't jail them cause you can't trust people who may see you as a possible meal in any situtation, particularly in a wasteland of survival, what heck are you thinking?😆) and are still telling me I should take your word for it on how this works like your some expert who spent thier whole live researching it when its clear you aren't as I have already spent a good chunk of my life with someone who actually researched these very topics to death (I have even made some of the same arguements you did and got shot down). So your getting an Essay rant.

    The folks with autocads  will turn around and use said autocads to make more autocads to trade around, after awhile every town, outpost, base, wandering hoard and if they still exist bandit hidout will have at least one, probably 3 with operaters, even on the fringes.

     And I say this because we already have people on  the "fringes" doing that exact thing right now in places like Afghanistan, they have AK74s (not 47s, 74s) alongside older boltaction rifles and trashbash rapid fire guns  as well as newer things, they didn't just loot it all in raids either, they made some of it and you don't see any of them or anyone else in the modern fringe world using crossbows or spears makeshift or otherwise in actual human to human combat which if it was going to happen for your reason would already be widely reported and talked about here on this forum,  (like IRL they only show up in the first/second world urban areas during riots or in the hands of bank robber nowdays). The only blackpowder weapons you really see are one off explosives using soda cans,etc. as shells not muskets which again only really show up in the first would and generally more complex or rather old finnicky (I mean the last "musket" I have heard of used was the elctrolock used to kill the  former prime minister of Japan). 

    Also, historically the "massive deprivations on the bottom and on the fringes of civilization"  and "vanishing resources" does not exist the way you think it does, outside of poor island forestry managment, that all seems to normally happpen due to population drops due to cultural reasons which won't affect weaponry tech as far as personal arms go.  In fact "fringes of civilization" is more like "catch up to current best development" cause they tend to get all the trash and second hand items from the "rich" and in a setting where space colonization is a thing "vanishing resources" seem unlikely except maybe via population drops due to lack of personel to fix and process stuff. (Also in real life poor places tend get large populations fast and if they are not run by complete idiots these populations turn into work forces and after a few decades they become economic power houses, this what happend to Inda and China that where fringe but are now important cogs in the world economy).

    Also in a "collapese" there likely won't be that many if any large rootless raider bands after the first decade or two cause the farming and herding communities with better logistics will have killed them all off (they are dead men walking from day 1, okay thats just reality since the raider's chances get worse each raid and if they go in with the outdated outproformed  arsenal your wanting they will die on the first to second raid, apoc raiders who make bank will be ex army/law enforcement or gangers ie folks who already have good guns before the collapese and the town dewllers will end up looting thier dead bodies at some point just because of the numbers are against raider, Mad Max just isn't going to happen okay!)

    As time goes on it will be even less likely that fringe people will be bringing the middle ages back to life like some bad postapoc novel. Heck realistically, by the 41st, forget lasguns (which by the way would likely be even easier to make than AKs if we knew how),  I would expect the typical "raider gang" on the "fringe of sociaty" to have something more advanced than GW lore has envisioned them to have,  like bio/nanomechanical "guns" that shoot seeds that use the now dead target as a seed bed to grow trees that grow more of said guns. And yes I expect that level at least by then even with the chaos gods, dark age of technoligy and other nonsense, 40k just isn't a good guidline for reality or tech devolpment (it doesn't even make sense in setting,  they clearly just chose 40,000 A.D. cause it looked cool on book covers 😆).

    Likewise if you ever come to my house, somhow kidnap me  and  drop me in the woods as you suggest, given my esitmated of your budget for this,  ranger stations with WIFI will be in the woods you drop me at if not the roadside gas station and the first email you will get after a 5 hour hike if I am not in a forgiving mood will be about how I will find you and get my revenge😆. Oh and by the way most of the 3rd world has better wifi than the USA last I checked which I admit was years ago now (so probably even better now), so don't try "but in ..." they have better wifi than here. Outside some small hard to get to pockets the wildness has been tamed buddy, and by the real 41 millium  this will be true of any world humans are on for more than a century, GW like most people are bad at thinking that far ahead since they don't even know half of whats going on now or why. 

    Also if I ever cast an iron spear,etc. it will purely be for hobby reasons or to sell on etsy cause honestly there just isn't a good reason to make them anymore beyond those two (to make a real survial spear you harden a light pointy stick over a fire at particular distance, anything else is wasting resources you should be using elsewhere, cause honestly hunting is the only good reason to make spears in a survival situtation since throwing rocks is smarter in a fight than getting close or giving your enemy a free weapon if you miss).

    The only real arguement you have for doing scavangers the way you want, WHICH IS BEST ONE BTW AND YOU SHOULD STICK WITH, is that Hollywood and GW are making all the same remarkably bad assumptions you are, and personally I think they are not forgivable on this issue either and well past needing a good kick in the pants over it. 

     

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  • timbus the thirteenth

    @Brian Van De Walker I think he's talking about a "humanity has been nuked back to the stone age" type scenario, not so much "minor conflicts". In which case yes, I imagine it would probably be easier for the average tribe to find a largish stick to hit people with than it would be to form a full alloy-mixing setup. Regular production of high-power guns relies not only on technical knowledge but also supply chains. Even the guys making guns in the desert still need to be able to buy/steal things like copper, steel, gunpowder mixtures, etc. Sure in a couple hundred years we'd probably figure that kind of thing out again, but until then all decent guns would probably be a finite resource and therefore highly valuable.

    Another scenario that you're not considering is one in which guns/firearms are being controlled, like in Escape for New York. If owning a gun means you get murked by a tyrannical police force, most gangsters will stick to something a bit more low-profile.

    @INSURGENT Skirmisher I bring up Trench Crusade specifically because of the Trench Pilgrims faction, who are battlefield scavengers who spend of their time stealing stuff. The setting takes place during an alternate version of WW1, meaning things like submachine guns are highly valuable and fully automatic weapons are prized relics. It's also a war that's been going on since the medieval ages, meaning even well-equipped troopers will probably use a sword or a club alongside their bolt-action. Anyways, it's a pretty popular game that WGA has already produced models for (sorry - "Trench Crusade Compatible"), and it could be a good excuse to make some half-naked fucks with gas masks wielding muskets.

    Trench Crusade Wiki

    This guy would be considered well-equipped for the faction. Also, while I know the iron capirote doesn't really fit the post-apocalypse vibe you want, I bet it'd be an easy headswap.

  • BV

    @timbus the thirteenth Thats just it, even if every WMD was used at the same time in a decent tatical pattern with the sole aim of crippling civilization as whole (which just isn't going to happen) humanity sure as heck wouldn't go back to the stoneage thats going to take MAGIC at this point (high fantasy magic at that),  as it stands there is to many layers of reduncies in place with more being added all the time we would probably still even have the internet though in more limited fromat after the nukes, bio weapons,etc. are used (like the only weapon that would be capable of causing a full civilization crash is the orion missle rocket doing a low flying twirl over the whole earth which would kill everyone leaving no survivors at all for a "back to stoneage" world and tech would probably still work, out living humanity).

    Most people don't even know about the reduncies in place because they don't teach about them in schools, if they did, the post apoc genre would probably end up as mostly comedies and high fantasy. Point is, guns and how to make them will still exist, no neo-stone age,etc. epic tech decay to personal arms setting would happen, infact at most 40 to 50 year setback for humanity realistically if everything that could hit the fan did due to infustructure like working water being gone in places, that is barring the orion rocket twirl which again is just a full on total extiniction event and there tech would probably still exist but people to use it wouldn't. 

    As to the later option you mention, I am pretty sure even a shive would be grounds for the totalitiarn police state to hunt you down if they are actually going to hunt gangers down and not just use the anti weapon laws to bully law abiding citizens or play some sort of  weird social heirachy game, and ganger would still have guns, perhaps trash guns like the lutty but they would still have them (since thats actually how things go down right now in real life, Escape from New York I am sure is a fun movie, but like everything else out of Hollywood its fantasy, do not take it as a guide to real life).  

    Best arguement he has is GW is making scavangers like that and there are a lot rule set with that pop culture motife thanks to Mad Max (which is actually set in literal Hell if you think about the logistics), and the way that arsnel would show up in death fields is thats what thier owner is dulling out to the team cause they are being artsy with kidnap Burning Man festival knockoff goers, nothing less, nothing more (which honestly is probably  the best explanation for muskets, crossbows,etc. even showing up in a scifi setting outside time travel and primitive aliens, sure as heck better than GW's).

  • timbus the thirteenth

    @Brian Van De Walker So yeah, bam, there's a worst-case scenario where there's 40-50 years where guns are hard to come by. And assuming people still fight in that period (which they will, humans are humans), they'll need to hit each other over the head with something. In which case, rebar and/or large rocks will be a hell of a lot easier to arm your basic gang members with than fully functioning aks. And of course all this is assuming there's no magic happening (kaiju attacks, alien invasion, rogue ai, zombies) making life any worse, which plenty of setting have.

    There's also the second scenario, where people have some kind of government stopping guns from being viable for most of the fighting population. This scenario quite literally exists irl in countries like Japan and South Korea, where they only have a handful of gun deaths a year but fully functional crime families (less so in the case of Japan, but I digress). In a hypothetical cyberpunk world, I could very well imagine a gang of scavengers trying to keep a low profile from the corps by not waving around automatic weapons everywhere. In the case of the scavengers kit that we're talking about, they all have (space versions of) lmgs and aks, for crying out loud! Fully functioning gas masks! Grenades! Nvgs! If I just wanted to snatch someone's catalytic converter and run, all I'd bring is maybe a shiv.

    In either case, it doesn't really matter if it's "realistic" or not, as hopefully humanity will never get the chance to find out. Ultimately a more low-tech scavenger kit could include plenty of guns, so long as there's also options for stuff like rebar clubs and shivs. Especially since this started as a conversation about the early stages of campaign gaming, having something sharp for the newbies who haven't earned a gun would be nice.

    (for what it's worth, I do agree that crossbows would be a bit silly... From everything I've heard they were a colossal pain in the ass to maintain and would probably be tougher to keep intact than a modern glock.)

  • M

    I personally feel like this is turning into two box ideas..

    The first being a scifi or pulp line set of over-the-top punk gangers, with a very roadwarriorish "leather, athletics gear, and scrap" aesthetic and a mix of melee weapons, modernish firearms, shivs, and zipguns.

    The other being something closer to a historicals "frontier trappers and voyageurs" with lowtech firearms and clothing from buckskins and fur.

  • IS

    @timbus the thirteenth I agree that some wasteland skirmishers would work perfectly in Trench crusade. They would kit-bash perfectly into some Trench Pilgrims, Chem Dogs, or Chaos Cultists. I'm sticking with the low tech baseline of muskets, jezzails, crossbows, and molotovs; because I think you can pretty easily find mausers, M1 Grands, and AK47s in a wide range of other kits. 

    I just think there is always going to be a good case for bandits, period. Yes, this social configuration may only last a few decades in any post-civ or fringe scenario, but it's ubiquitous and re-occurring in both post nuke and dark age galaxy settings.  

    When I use the term Autonomous Warband (AW), there is a lot of information packaged into that term. Though an AW may have a certain cultural configuration, identity, race, or ideology. It is essentially independent of any larger military hierarchy (maybe only a "cell" has connections but is still autonomous). That autonomy gives a warband the ability to decide its own agenda and in a gaming frame it allows it to come into conflict with any other warband in a campaign, including other warbands of the same cultural, racial, and similar ideological configurations. 

    What's great about Autonomous Warbands, is that they control their own budgets, make their own equipment & recruiting choices, and most importantly must secure their own incomes. Many of us have played the best of these games; Necromunda, Mordheim, Ash Wastes, Inqusimunda, Gangs of New OrK, and Gorkamorka. GW has used second edition rules to make Shadow War Armageddon, but it much more feels like baseline infantry squads doing the work that has to be done on their section of a larger military front. They don't feel autonomous in the same way Necromunda gangs feel and some of their rules reflect this. 

    But even within this broad umbrella of Autonomous Warbands there are outliers... Some would say outlaws... Their access to markets is limited, their scenarios are higher stakes, and most of all their income isn't secure or sustainable. More than any other Autonomous Warband their continued survival and merger prosperity depends on the successful outcomes in scenarios they play. Many such warbands are not fighting to win, but survive, and that is an important distinction. I have no doubt that their leader is the guy with the AK47 or Shotgun, he is probably their leader for this very reason. But many may be armed with kitchen knives, spears, slings, and hand made scatter cannons. And they will fight none the less because they need to eat. This is what the start of a bandit gang looks like, its a pretty universal configuration, though maybe temporary, its repeatable across history, and will most likely be a facet of our future on this planet, and maybe others.  

    Additionally, success for scavengers may secure income that can sustain more recruitment, but may not necessarily deliver access to markets. In this way the size of the bandit gang may swell but the majority of their armament may continue to remain primitive.

    I think this point has been successfully labored. In the context of an Autonomous warband, it fits well with their capacity to produce primitive weaponry.   

     

    As a final note:

    I really enjoyed learning about the Jezzeil. It's a weapon that is typically made using the lock from more standardized or prolific firearms, but its barrel & stock is fashioned by a local gun smith. In this way it is often uniquely designed for the needs of local nomadic people, many of whom engage in raiding, protecting mountain passes, trade routes, and even guard pilgrim roads. Sometimes the Jezzail is smooth bore, sometimes rifled, often ornately decorated, and always uniquely made from a variety of scavenged parts. 

    And yes, it is still used in warfare today.  

     

  • IS

    @Mithril2098 I incorperate both of these sets into my Scavvy and Shanty Town Dweller gangs whenever I get the chance. What I'm actully looking for is a hybrid between the two. 

    Cobble Stone Castings' SEWER SCAVENGERS 

    Muskets & Tomahawks, French Canadian Militia 

  • timbus the thirteenth

    @INSURGENT Skirmisher very nicely written, I agree! what I will say is that WGA likes to make kits for a pretty broad audience, so the bulk of the kit might be standard aks, shotguns, etc. But there's plenty of room for expanding on the sprue with more fun stuff like axes, machetes, and pointy sticks. The stargrave kit has both standard high-tech guns and zombie bits, after all. so long as it lets people make both half-organized bandits and really crappy ones.

    I love jezzail dearly. If you're interested in improvised weapons, I'm also quite fond of the eoka pistol (famous for the game Rust) and the mysterious firearm used to kill Shinzo Abe. If I'm getting my facts right, I believe the japanese police examined how it was built, created an exact copy, and had no idea how to get it to work. Just goes to show how resourceful humanity is, especially when it comes to improvising means of violence.

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