Sprue Game submissions need to be researched better before voting starts


  • because some of the historicals catagories have been filled with entries that are the wrong era's, as well as duplicates.

     

    take for example the current 'first empires' voting..

    Shaolin warrior monks aren't a first empires era thing, they don't exist until about the 14th century AD (the monastaries existed since the 2nd century AD, but the warrior monk aspect did not appear until the 14th century in the wake of the damage to the monastaries in the Red Turban Rebellion. and the warrior monk tradition would effectively end with the fall of mperial china and rise of the Republic of china in the 1900's.) so even if you focus on the pacifistic earlier centuries, it still doesn't qualify as a first empires catagory. (though to be honest, given it is likely people are thinking of media depictions from Wuxia and action films, they'd probably fit just as well in the pulp category.)

    mycenean heavy infantry is listed three times, counting the "trojan war infantry" listing. (the trojan war was Mycenean greeks against the Hittite aligned city of troy)

    unless the submitter used an incorrect terminology, "hellenistic cataphracts" aren't a thing till the 2nd century AD so belong in the 'decline and fall' category, as part of the Eastern Roman Empire/early Byzantines. cataphracts wouldn't really catch on in the greek half of the roman empire till after the 3rd century though.

    The Chinese Parade Dragon is a mostly modern thing in its recognizeble form, so really should be in the pulp catagory. there have been dragon parades since the 4th centry AD, but the recognizable form from modern times doesn't start showing up till the 15th century as part of street plays, and didn't become common or popular until the 1800's. combined with the fact that it is largely a non-combat element, it fits better into Pulp or the digital catalog than first empires.



  • @Mithril2098 Actually not surprised on this. That said on these particulars I think a few points need to made.

     You can make arguements on the Trojian war infantry,  Mycenean heavy infantry, Mycenean light/heavy infantry. I mean we are talking several centuries and those do suggest diffrent box contents,  Trojian war infantry might focus specifically on the battle of Troy (perhaps with urban bits thrown in or could mix in other factions such as the legendary Amazons,etc.), Mycenean light/heavy infantry means mix while the Heavy armor set focus is just that.

    I would say  2nd century AD isn't really a line covered yet by WA and if they show up then its a bit early to describe "hellenistic cataphracts" as being for "early Byzantines in Decline and Fall"since the Roman empire had not even split yet and wouldn't till 395 AD , heck they still lacked pants in 2nd century😆.  Also we sure this isn't a referance to the Persian guard cavalry WA has STLs of?

    By the way while its true that Shaolin Kung-Fu didn't truely become a thing till later, it actually came into full existiance in 6th century AD in sui dynasty (thats what you where trying to say right),  not the 14th century and the Yellow Turban Rebllion was hunderd or so years earler than both being at the tail end of the Han Dynasty. (Honestly voted for it anyways)

    Also while Shaolin is more is "decline and fall" era, Kung-Fu itself  comes out of the mists time so speak given its supposed Xia dynasty origen, one of  its earliest recorded practitioners where Daoists Monks in Zhou dynasty who did the martial arts for fitness according to the pedi Britannica, so still kinda of the same thing just diffrent heads and maybe clothing/weapons but that is a maybe.

    Finally no, there actually is a  Chinese Parade Dragon that fits in First Empires in theory at least but it is kinda of a myth that antidiluvian cryptozoologists cling to and likely not what the proposer had in mind, the Chariot Dragons of the Shang Dynasty Emperor (he supposedly had them pull him around in parades all the time).


  • @Mithril2098 To be honest the Mongols showing up in both Age of Chivilary and the "dark age lines" polls was more of an issue for me.


  • the cataphract thing got clarified by the submitter at least. he was thinking the selucid heavy cavalry based on the parthian forms of armored shock cav. which i'd forgotten were a thing (i am not as well read in the successor states peoriod as i am in later eras). that said, "hellenic cataphracts" is nowhere near as clear a guide for voting as as "Selucid Kataphraktoi", given that 'hellenic cataphracts' is how the eastern Roman Empire's heavy cavalry is seperated from the Sassanian heavy calvary for late roman empire stuff.


  • @Mithril2098 Yeah that makes much more sense.


  • I agree in principle, but I suppose it doesn't HAVE to matter, as long as we can rely on Wargame Atlantic to say "this popular entry sounds like it will be a successful product, it sounds like it'll be fun to make, BUT let's queue that as a Classic Fantasy/Pulp/Death Fields subject someday, instead...", and then focus on something like Macedonean Phalanx, Greek Hoplites, Sea Peoples, or whatever might be the highest appropriate historical entry.

    And, I think we can trust WGA to do exactly that:  they aren't at all shy about putting their product in an appropriate product line, even if they need to create a new line to do so.

    There might be some odd categorization for digital products, but I can't think of a single hard plastic set that WGA has released in what seemed an inappropriate category, and I doubt they'll start now.

    The only question is whether it might throw off the poll results because voters who might have otherwise chosen an appropriate historical set for the line instead chose only anachronisms and fantasy products to the point where it damages the poll results until only historical entries nobody likes will win.  I have a feeling that won't happen, either:  I'm betting the historical gamers voting in the polls know what they like, understand that they can choose more than one option, and wouldn't be distracted into wasting all their options on fantasy and anachronisms.

    I think it'll probably work out just fine.  But, don't let that stop you from venting over the customers who made the suggestions, and wonering what they were thinking!  :) 


  • @Yronimos Whateley Yeah, I think its actually just the first round of voting and only one catagory will win, I voted for Shaolin monks because they seemed the most fun and a number of the other options either are already in the STL store, clearly in the works (sea people? Hitties? yeah didn't Egypt fight them?),  already exist elsewhere, or will likely get made by someone else well before WA gets to it.

    In the last case I am actually surprised Thracians are not a thing already, same deal with Thorakitai though I am starting to think it might be one of those "its already covered by X warrior set, just swap the sheild sprue you fools" issues based on what I have read about them.  


  • the whole sprue game seems a little messy thus far. i'm betting that they got a little overwhelmed by the amount of submissions.


  • @timbus the thirteenth almost for sure.


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