Cavalry Needed


  • Well this just happened:

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/17/attilan-rough-riders-bring-horses-to-a-tank-fight-and-win/

    Just about any convertible 20th Century and/or Sci-Fi cavalry WGA could push out about now during the initial new Imperial Guard frenzy would have to sell well.

    Grognards Raptor cavalry is somewhere in the process.

    There was a sneak peak that was suggestive of 20th century Polish cavalry.

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/44406/sneak-peek-what-s-behind-the-curtain?page=2

    (Super psyked for this if it's indeed Polish Cavalry.)

    There was also a sneak peak of this thing (on left):

    Which appears to have a bridle.  (Could be the raptors?)

    And I continue to advocate for WW1 German cavalry (possibly a historical/Death Fields kit) ... Which are 1: bad ass and 2: supremely convertible/or "proxiable" for Death Korps of Krieg.

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/51683/german-cavalry

     

     



  • Make the legs and torsos separate to aid conversions.  Include a more elaborate leader torso and a female torso.  Print money.


  • Let's not overlook use of cavalry on both sides on the Eastern Front.

    Some of my focus battles are those for the Rzhev salient in 1942. That saw flanking operations by Soviet cavalry alongside motorised elements, So you had horses, motorbikes, tanks, tank riders and infantry involved in hard and bitter fighting in winter.


  • @Mark Dewis 

    The fact that's there is ZERO plastic WW2 cavalry is vaguely baffling.  

    Any WW2 cavalry kit would be popular and would serve as a far better basis of conversion to other WW2 cavalry than the current American Civil War cavalry most have to rely on.  

    A recent interview confirms what I've long suspected - that WW2 gaming is the most popular period for historical gaming.

    https://warlord-community.warlordgames.com/fifteen-years-history-of-warlord-games/?__s=wan34q11j1av754wt5fr

    This is coming from the head of one of the top 5 wargames companies...  A wargames company that sells rules and miniatures for every age from antiquities to the Korean War.  I can think of no one earth who can speak more decisively on the matter.  He sees what sells and goes out the door daily.  

    I would love to see a Soviet cavalry kit:

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/49886/suggestions-for-new-soviet-kits

    Or a Cossack cavalry kit:

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/58950/ww1ww2-cossack-cavalry

    (There is overlap of course.)


  • If there was a WGA WW2 German Cavalry kit and a WGA WW2 Soviet Cavalry/Cossack kit with separate legs and torsos one could also do some easy and awesome Cossacks in German service bashes.


  • The trick is that 28mm WW2 gaming is very focussed on infantry squads plus a few vehicles. Tactically you're as likely to see "cavalry" dismount to fight on foot with their guns (all WW2 horse soldiers are mounted infantry, even the ones with swords).

    15mm (i.e. FoW) is where you're more likely to see some cavalry... but not enough that the existing metals can't cater to it.

    So... usually the rules for them are there, but footsloggers and vehicles (and even artillery) get priority for sprues.

    I agree this is a bit of an opportunity for WGA, though.


  • @Mark Dewis 

    I would agree all WW2 horse Soldiers are MOSTLY mounted Infantry.  There are too many documented cavalry charges to say they were "just" mounted Infantry.

    I largely agree that on the distances protrayed on a 28mm battlefield, cavalry would almost certainly already be dismounted.  For better or worse however, Bolt Action is the most popular set of 28mm WW2 rules and Bolt Action is unapologetically a Hollywood version of WW2.  One where mounted cavalry is very much viable.  


  • @JTam they ARE mounted infantry. But mounted infantry on occasion in the modern era did perform charges on horseback. Beersheba is a prime example, but the Australian Light Horse were definitely mounted infantry, and the unit that charged was not issued with swords (ironically, another brigade elsewhere in the area had been). After the 4th Light Horse Brigade had successfully charged they dismounted and fought with rifle and bayonet. 

    If we are talking Cossacks, the line is a little blurred because of tradition. But any successful charges they did were opportunity ones - it was not the doctrine of either Soviet or German armies.

    I guess that could come up in a patrol skirmish encounter, though so it's fair that mounted cossack models should exist.


  • @JTamThese would make great SI/FI as well for "Shadow amd Bone" which I`m gettin, more drawn to as our fantasy choise.


  • @JTam  WWI's german cavalry such as these:

    from an old movie "Fraulein Doktor", they've a primitive anti gas protection gear


  • @Alessio De Carolis 

    Definitely.  And awesome pic!

    Any WW1 German cavalry kit would have to have the gas equipment...


  • @Mark Dewis 

    I can't agree.  

    If your sole definition of cavalry is conducting charges than, yes, horse cavalry ended shortly after the Napoleonic Wars.  Rifles put an end to that. 

    But horse cavalry continued to execute classic cavalry missions of scouting, screening, raid, rearguard, and pursuit while mounted all through WW2.  

    I think if you went back in time and asked the men themselves they would most firmly tell you they were Cavalry and not Infantry.  

    Your sighted Australian Light Horse was indeed a "dragoon" style mounted Infantry unit.  Organized and recognized as such from the get go.  Most WW2 Cavalry units were organized and trained as cavalry units.

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/58080/which-ww2-cavalry

    Interesting read for any with an interest in Soviet cavalry:

    https://www.lonesentry.com/articles/cavalry/index.html


  • @Geoff Maybury 

    I enjoyed the first season of Shadow and Bone.  I thought it was interesting how technology was making the battle wizards increasingly irrelevant.  The old veteran saying "Soon you'll be as worthless as the rest of us..."

    Makes sense.  On a battlefield of swords and arrows a fire throwing wizard is powerful.  On a battlefield with bolt action rifles throwing 196 grain bullets with an effective range of 600 meters a fire wizard is merely threatening.


  • @Alessio De Carolis 

    https://youtu.be/ryBdaLX1GtA

    I'll be give this one a try... Thanks.

     


  • @JTam 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry_corps_(Soviet_Union)

    "Despite the name, for the most part, the troops of the cavalry corps operated primarily as dismounted infantry. Soviet cavalry doctrine emphasized that cavalry should dismount to fight unless specific circumstances existed to attack mounted. Mounted attacks were called for when the enemy was weak and his defense unorganized. The enemy must be unaware of the cavalry's presence and the terrain must favor its approach. After the enemies retreated they were able to pursue the enemy on horses along with tanks resulting in great enemy losses."

    Terminology is inconsistent. Cavalry proper, armed with lance, swords and pistols, waned during the 19th C. The Crimean War still had them in battle. By the 20th C the primary weapon of the mounted arm was overwhelmingly the rifle or carbine, regardless of the labels used.

    Some of Australian Light Horse, for example, were definitely trained in scouting, pursuit etc. They were commonly called mounted infantry (and some were), but might be better termed mounted rifles.  


  • The photo with the German lancer with his mask (and a horse without) is OK : reco' or rapid movement in a dangerous and may be infected area. The photo of the two German lancers is OK too : men and horses prepared to advance calmly through a possible infected zone...

    The photo of the film, with ruberized blankets, is ridiculous : no use of such an accesory in WWI/WWII. Studies have been carried out : useless and impractical equipment, never developped in the field.

    The manuals (German, British and French ones) clearly said : in the event of a gas attack, the horseman must put on his own mask and calmly take his horse to safety, outside the infected area. It was not recommended for the rider to put the mask on the horse : wasted time under enemy direct fire, in a lethal zone. The man should have dismounted (démonter), grabbed the mask from the saddle-bags (les fontes), fixed it on the horse's nose, calmed it down and got back up (remonter)... In modern war, one minute of direct exposure to fire, standing up, without moving with a worried horse is too lethal ! It was necessary for the rider (le cavalier) to clear as quickly as possible, on horseback, towards a healthy zone.

    Horsemen knew the horses well : they knew that a mount with the nostrils (les naseaux) obstructed by a mask is incapable of moving quickly. The horse feels worried and oppressed, hard to control because he needs a lot of air when working (he doesn't know how to hold his breath, regulate or save air).

    German (British, NZ, Russian) mounted rifles (or lancers) would be cool, for sure, but in a "realistic mode", based on field/time photographs. Silly Hollywood and Cinecittà representations (or coming from video games) should be banned !


  • @Pierre Lerdou-Udoy You aren't wrong, but don't forget the so called "Rule of Cool" in the movies, which give us a LOT of unrealistic duels, as in "Scaramouche", probabilly these heavy protected german cavalrymen were a shout-out to "Alexander Nevsky", also the music was similar. Naturally, such figures could be used for an alternate earth's story, or for a stempunk one. About the use of cavalry in modern times don't forget Rhodesia's army employed (successfully) mounted rifles against guerrilla fighters until the late '70s, and the US Army considered employing mounted soldiers against the japanese in the Philippines after the landings in 1944, due the swamps in the interior.


  • Somebody timed it well....  Or is seizing the opportunity....


  • @Mark Dewis 

     

    Much like modern Cavalry, WW2 Cavalry generally dismount to attack or defend.  And just like modern Cavalry, WW2 Cavalry tended to stay mounted during classic cavalry missions of screen, scout, and pursue.  Infantry is largely unsuited for and rarely conducts the later missions except in the most localized sense.  


  • @Alessio : è vero (you're right). Scenarists and movie costumers make art, not reenactment or "living history". But with less money than Holywood, we can do excellent and accurate things (see short movies like "Verstaubt sind die Gesichter", Paralight Works). The "Rule of Cool" is often *** : a good and accurate miniature of Prussian Uhlan or ANZAC-mounted riflemen would be an excellent basis for all further conversions, "cooler than cool" !

    The German point of view now (WW2).

    The horse reimposed itself on the German army for many reasons through the war : 1. lack of gasoline and motor vehicles ; 2. presence of very good and skilled "reiter" and military trainers in the ranks of the army ; 3. avaibility of well trained war horses (German ones and others taken in Austria, Poland or France) and stud farms.

    Moreover, horses were very useful in anti-partisans warfare (Balkans, Ukraine, Bielorussia), just like in Rhodesia or South Africa (Namibia), later... A mounted (SS-)rifleman was fast, discreet, autonomous and passed over absolutely all terrains, off-road. Ideal in the mountains, in the steppe, in the forests or in marshy areas (a horse can swim). A war horse required two years of training, but was very economical, solid and effective for raids against partisans and control of rural/wild areas.

    One more thing : the "Volksdeutschen", among whom the SS recruited a lot (in Hungary, Poland, Yougoslavia, Tyrol, Sudeten, Baltic areas), came mostly from rural areas. They knew how to take care of horses and how to ride them on a daily basis.

    Red or "German" cossacks minis would be like an apple pie, with "chantilly" !


  • It's all about separate torsos ... .


  • Today's (21 OCT 22) sneak peak:

    Heck yes!


  • Conversions found on the net:


  • @JTam I like all of those "Dino of coarse" but those riders are something very special.


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