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Nobles 16th - 19th - 41st century.

  • Willdunn3cr

    First time caller, long time lurker.

    Straight up I've been lucky to find game makers, miniature makers and content creators that understand that the hobby is about being loose with rules and the purpose of plastic kits.

    I've recently just picked up the rules and cards for 02 Hundred Hours and Guards of Traitors Toll.

    However I still would like to play those games in the warhammer universe and have a specific kits available that may help assemble characters whilst having broad appeal to historics.

    So I'm asking for consideration that Wargames Atlantic make a Nobles Kit.

    A Multi-part nobles kit covering the 16th - 19th century would be so useful for not only games set in those time but for inquisitors, rogue traders and highborn in the grimdark future.

    I'm talking Ruff collars, powder wigs, corsets with bell dresses, mutton chops, cigarette stick extenders, those glasses, binoculars, masquerade masks. Let's not forget expressions of distain and faux delight.

    I reckon this is a home run!

     

  • timbus the thirteenth

    I'm all for the idea, at least in theory, but I feel like a good chunk of the kit is already covered? Between the conquistadors and fantasy npcs, theres plenty of "nobility" kits. an explicitly sci-fi or steampunk one could have some wings, though. I feel like I distantly remember talks about a victorian sci-fi line, but maybe that was just marcher? idk. definitely a cool idea, but needs a little more oomph.

  • M

    also even just looking at the historical side, that 300 year range covers a multitude of wildly different sets of high society fashion. even ignoring the fact that most historical wargames aren't going to have need of high society types in their regular clothing (as opposed to the armor or uniforms they'd wear for a military campaign), you'd still need to narrow the time range down a lot to get a useful kit.

    personally i think that historical kits are the wrong line for this. i think that you'd get more use putting a "high society" kit into the fantasy line, especially the Guards of Traitors Toll line. since that game is one of urban policing, you'd be more likely to see lesser nobility and wealthier merchants in fancy outfits show up, and since it is fantasy you can have a mix of otherwise anachronistic styles. and they'd fit in alongside the current townsfolk sets. you'd have to convert them to scifi yourself, but that can be largely handled through adding scifi bits or some head or limb swaps.

  • Yronimos Whateley

    I don't actually do any Warhammer gaming and don't know the lore, so take me with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that an elaboration on the Digital Atlantic Traditional Vampires set is surely just about perfect for this sort of thing. 

    Maybe Wargames Atlantic would be so kind as to produce a hard plastic version in time for Halloween this year, in much the same way they did for the zombies last year?  (I'd love to see them make a tradition of releasing horror-themed sets on Halloween, even if it can't be a yearly thing!)

    And let's face it:  in both Real Life and fantasy, the aristocracy are pretty much vampires anyway.....  I think I'd be happy with a hard plastic box that focuses on, say, three or four variations of the male traditoinal "Dracula" costume, and one or two variations on the female dress, with a variety of heads ranging from human, to dark elf, to fang-bearing vampire, to feral ghoul.  Include maybe some fancy rapiers, daggers, and black-powder pistols, along with a couple grimoirs, wands, staves, and other evil spell-caster bits to round out the kit (seems to me that the traditional vampire was always more of an evil sorceror than melee fighter!)

    A set like that could cover a little ground beyond just fantasy nobels, then, including elf aristocracy, vampires, and more.  

  • timbus the thirteenth

    It's a shame, I feel like some of WGA's most unique and interesting designs are stuck in the realm of digital. Obviously I could just learn to work with resin, but it certainly feels like everybody on this forum has at least one digital kit that they're completely obsessed with and want to have in plastic, lol. At least there's a bit of a precedent for halloween-themed sculpts coming to plastic. my beloved cultists might be stuck in digital forever...

  • BV

    @Willdunn3cr umm, 16th century nobles dressed very diffrently from 19th century nobles, same deal with those inbetween, and there was fasion diffrences for each nation as well (and let GW make its own niche civilian minis😆, particularly since 28mm historical scale figures tend to look out of place next to 32mm heroic for most people🤣).

    That said I would say the Vampires and while we are at vampire hunters if done right would cover this more or less (particularly if they went Castlevainia style with  it).

  • Willdunn3cr

    @Yronimos Whateley @Yronimos Whateley 

    Yeah I think your correct; the kit has legs to be a jumping off point for fantasy kitbashing rather than trying to accommodate for historics.

    I'm biased because I prefer the heroic scale of Death Fields range along with North Star + older GW kits. But it makes the most sense for WA to make a nobles kit inline with their Villagers and Guards sets in scale.

    I really just want a kit of BROAD nobles / aristocrates options from Elizabethan to Victorian times. Some fantasy head options for Elves and vampires goes well that theme.

    However being able to make a few nobles for Late Medieval, Renaissance  and nepolionics games with the one box would make it truly versatile.

  • Yronimos Whateley

    @timbus the thirteenth "It's a shame, I feel like some of WGA's most unique and interesting designs are stuck in the realm of digital. Obviously I could just learn to work with resin, but it certainly feels like everybody on this forum has at least one digital kit that they're completely obsessed with and want to have in plastic, lol. At least there's a bit of a precedent for halloween-themed sculpts coming to plastic. my beloved cultists might be stuck in digital forever..."

     

    Yeah, at this point, I think there are several digital sets that I'd love to see developed into full-blown plastic kits, including:

     

    (Seems to me there might actually be several years worth of Halloween Horror sets there, now that I see this in list form, between the cultists, vampires and "gargoyles", priests and vampire hunters, mummies, and aliens!  Some suggestions for more horror sets might include devils, possessed "Deadites", Lovecraftian ghouls and Deep One fish-men, scarecrows, undead "death knights", 20's/30's pulp detectives/investigators, "Forbidden Psalm" and "Endless Horrors" themed sets....) 

  • Yronimos Whateley

    @Willdunn3cr ""

     

    With that in mind, the Digital catalogue also includes a wonderful "Committee of Public Safety" set (which really ought to be moved from "Napoleonic Conquests" to "Age of Reason", I think) that would work for me as corrupt and decadent aristrocrats, though in its current form it's a bit one-dimensional, entirely male figures with no head or arm options - easily fixed with a bit more development, and again, it could use some vampire/ghoul and dark elf options.

     

    Some normal human heads should, of course, be included for such figures, but for some reason, this sort of costume always make me think of a powdered-wig and frock-coat edition of figures from something Francisco Goya might have painted on a bad day, but in the best possible way:




    [Insert here the accumulated degradations of a few generations of the worst things left to the imagination by A Picture of Dorian Gray and Doctor Jeckyll and Mister Hyde]

    Q:  "...good Lord!  What do you call such an abominable performance???"

    A:  "'The Aristrocrats!'"

  • CT

    @Willdunn3cr Honestly, with all the different styles throughout the centuries, you'd be better off with a fantasy set to cover that. Granted it also depends on which of the big three to four styles of nobles you want depicted in classical fantasy. Medieval? Renaissance? Victorian/Steampunk? Or even wild cards like Greco-Roman togas or Age of Reason with the astonishing wigs and long white socks?

    Admittedly, as I just pointed out, fantasy nobles don't really have one particular style. The 16th-19th century had lots of fashion changes in just mere decades. If we go the fantasy route, we could narrow it down to one of two macro-historical fantasy styles. The Medieval-Renaissance Style and whatever you'd call the in-between of Pirates of the Caribeen style of nobility and Victorian Style. The best example I'd have of the latter style is Piltover and Zaun from Arcane, which has a sort of Victorian vibe going for it.

    But depending on whether the Classic Fantasy Villagers look like they'd fit in the Victorian Era, I'd say Medieval-Renaissance Style Nobles are a more likely pick.

  • BV

    @Charles Tottington alongside plate armored knights, mid to late 19th (Victorian) seems to have the most visual versatility for nobels since  you can fit them in most genric  modern/classic pulp, SciFi, and fantasy settings  as well as steampunk, gothic horror,etc. without too much trouble on any of those fronts unlike 16th century  which is a bit too tied to..., well the 16th century.  

  • M

    to give you an idea..

    this is first half 16th century english clothing for the high society (1500-1550 or so)

    the later half of the century the mens stuff looks more like this:

    though there was obviously a fair degree of overlap since fashion doesn't appear all at once.

    and i found this great series of images on pintrest that shows how fashion evolved decade to decade for the 300 years after that. gives a good idea of how broad the timeframe being asked is.

    as you can see by the time you get into the 1800's trends stabalize some but there is still a lot of variation.

  • timbus the thirteenth

    This is a little off topic, but I've been dreaming for a while of a 1600s-1800s travel wear set. For whatever reason, I can't for the life of me find any pictures of actual examples outside of magic the gathering cards, but I've seen the like in dozens of movies, books, paintings, etc. I

    My art for Ulvenwald Mysteries, Shadows Over Innistrad Remastered 🌙 : r/magicTCG

    Basicaly just a mix of tricorne hat, longish coat, and a little cape thingy around the shoulders.French Highwayman Coat1,280 × 1,280The Highwayman clothing : r/history440 × 248

    I'm not sure how historically accurate it is, but it's the look that's inspired classic werewolf hunters, highwaymen, etc, as well as more recently bloodborne. Also it looks really really cool. Seriously, every time I go hiking, I put on my neon green puffer jacket and cry a little, knowing a couple centuries ago I would have such a magnificent fit on the trees themselves would weep.

    Anyways, extended digression aside, if we did start to look towards more 'civilian' forms of clothing, a set like this might be a worthy addition.

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  • BV

    @timbus the thirteenth The Travel coat would certianly work for alot, tricornes... I guess it reminds me of homeschool Americian history too much.

  • M

    the collar being closed and turned up that high is probably more of a hollywood thing, but that style of greatcoat (sometimes called a watchcoat) certainly was a thing. if you got a few hundred bucks you can actually get an authentic recreation of one from Townsends or other reinactor supplier.

     

    such coats (as well as a similar styled 'watch cloak') were actually used by soldiers, sailors, and the like as well as civilians, in colder weather. especially sentries, guards, and the like, who would be standing out in the cold for long periods.

    the cloak form:

     

  • Willdunn3cr

    @Mithril2098 

    Thanks everyone for the discussion.

    I never realised just how long and prevalent tights / leggings were high fashion. I certainly see pre ww2 trousers and jeans fashion in a new light. Those wide British Army trousers seem so radical.

    Digressing; honesty with all this feedback if WA would make a nobles kit I can only see two viable option,  both which are loose and fast with influences.

    One classic fantasy kit in true scale, that may have Guards of Tratiors Toll cards/rules.

    And another that is heroic scale for Death Fields and is primed for multipart scavaging in the 41st millennium.

    Both could work, if Grey for Now Games want another expansion, nobles seem interesting enough.

    For sci-fi nobles, the big boy in the room keeps most of that firmly away from plastic kits. A versatilie selection of options to make characters fron aristocrats origins to me seems like a solution to a long standing problem.

     

     

  • M

    deathfields has civilian kits in WGA digital, and they're more alongthe lines of star wars or "near future scifi" than warhammer 40k.

     

     

    if you are looking more for 'multipart civilian scavengers' they have a set that allows for armed civilians: 

         

    as well as a set that upgrades the cannonfodder plastics with non-combat parts.

     

    And frankly, games workshop doesn't really need the help when it comes to supporting their game lines. they're already the gorilla in the room as far as the gaming industry goes, and there are hundreds of 3d print sculptors who make stuff for their games whether GW likes it or not. WGA's might make stuff that is compatible with GW's rulesets, but they're doing it in their own visual styles.

     

  • BV

    @Mithril2098 Hmm, 40k's lore is such a diverse pile of bile with thousands of Human planets with there own cultures  that no those would actually work fine for the 41st millennium nobelity and civilians as long as human heads are used and you glued on more skulls.  

     

  • timbus the thirteenth

    If you wanted to spin it as a sci-fi kit, I think the best way would be to give it a couple steampunk bits. That way you can have stuff like robot arms, clockwork monocles, and space lasers without just making it a GW knockoff. Alternatively, if we wanted to get WEIRD, it could be fun to have a death fields team that's based on a noble hunting party. Technoraptors instead of hounds, drone strikes instead of hawks, and of course, psychotic nobles sniping the peasantry with comically oversized railgun-muskets. But that's a completely seperate conversation, and one probably best suited for digital.

  • Yronimos Whateley

    For what it's worth, while sidetracked, the Townsends reenactor's coat looks to my eye a LOT like a more professionally-tailored version of a "capote" - a home-made winter coat they used to home-make from heavy wood trade blankets on the American frontier - all you'd need is a blanket, needle and thread, and a long, cold winter stuck in a log cabin with nothing else to do. 

    The tricorn seems to me a good fit for such a thing, any sort of wide-brimmed "cowyboy" style hat would too, as would the classic raccoon-skin cap, stocking caps, hoods, and the like. 

    I wouldn't at all be surprised to find that's what the Townsends' coat is modeled on, and probably a lot of the other coats we're looking at here, including the military coats.

     

    Which sort of goes into American frontiersman/mountaineer territory, and I'm sure it would suit native American tribes as well, the sort of thing that might be most easily pinned down somewhere between the 1700s and 1800s - generally spanning the Wargames Atlantic Age of Reason, Napoleon's Wars, and Imperial Conquests lines.  It seems the original trade blankets were imported from England in significant numbers beginning in the 1780s by the Hudson Bay trading company, and I'm sure they were practically an alternative to money for the fur traders, with a thousand-and-one uses besides blankets and coats.

    It wouldn't look out of place in post-apocalyptic contexts either, I think.

    I could get behind a frontiersman type set for any of those WA product lines for figures that are dressed in this sort of thing (along with buckskins and other appropriate costumes), but short of that, I guess that any Napoleonic, ACW, WWI, or other military kit with figures in greatcoats of any sort would be the next-best-thing.

    Anyway, for the fancier, more nicely-tailored stuff that nobles might wear, I can't really think of much in plastic kits or in miniatures - I don't know a lot about what's available in white metal or 3D-printed minis these days, and I don't know a lot about Silver Bayonet, but that might be one place to look for something of this sort.

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  • M

    Could also be that the Capote was people trying to copy the pattern/style of the watchcoat, just using readily available materials on the frontier. not unlike how later on settlers in the american west would recut fabric flour bags using dress patterns to make clothing. (Which eventually led to a lot of manufacturers using labels made from easily washed off inks, and bags made from patterned fabric. Knowing that would encourage sales)

    And even if so it is probable that the watchcoat may have started as an even earlier attempt to convert a blanket or cloak into a fitted coat.

     

     

    And a source for 40k friendly civilians in plastic occurs to me.. with the anachronistic mix of elements in the setting, you could probably take a box of the fantasy villagers and/or guards and then blend parts from them with either the pulp agents (for higher society types and their guards) or the survivors (for more working class types).. a three piece suit and tie combined with the fantasy sleeves, shoulder-halfcloak, and accessories would certainly fit the mix of scifi and fantasy aesthetics, and giving the medieval looking bodies the modern gun arms would fit as gamgers. If you can get them, a sprue or two of the age of reason minutemen or grenadiers would also fit well into that mix. The 1700's british bodies in particular if mixed with the fantasy guards arms or the merchant bits from the villagers set would make for a very high society 40k look.

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