Hey Folks!
There's much talk about small WW2 Vehicles WGA could release. Let us collect and talk about some nice small Equipment.
I think about:
-L3/33 / L3/35
-L6/40 / Sermovente 47/32
-M3 / M3A1 Stuart I / II / II / IV
-Panzer 38(t) / Marder-III(r) /Marder-IIIH
-JPz-38(t) Hetzer
-Vickers MkVIa/b/c
-Matilda I
-T-26 obr 31/33/35 / Vickers E
-Renaulf FT17/18
-Renault R35/R39
-SdKfz-221/222/223
-BA-64
some more ideas or suggestions?
Polish TKS tankette.
Obviously in conjunction with a 28mm 1939 Polish Infantry and Polish Cavalry box ;)
TKS rampage:
Also served with the Germans in a limited capacity.
Clearly this one got around. TKS with German markings being examined by a US GI.
@Steffen Seitter
Suggest M5 instead of M3 Stuarts. Much harder to find M5 models for some reason.
It would depend on which scale Wargames Atlantic would want to make their armored kit line in. The Renault FT-17 and the Renault R-35 aren't available in either 1/56 or 1/48 scale in plastic. Neither are the Italian L3/33 or L6/40, which all four would compliment Wargames Atlantic's infantry releases
@Steffen Seitter
I think your L6/40 and Semovente 47/32 suggestion is a great one.
Same chassis for both vehicles so easy to have one sprue for the lower hull and tracks of both kits.
They support the WGA WW2 Italian Infantry release.
Can be used on the Eastern Front.
Can be used by the Germans, Czechs, and Slovenes.
They are just neat vehicles. In 1/48 they are very small. In 1/56 they are minuscule. Bltizkreig Miniatures sent me a 1/56 L6/40 and a 1/56 47/32 by mistake instead of the 1/48th ones I ordered. I was going to use them as Grot Tanks until I finally got them exchanged.
Not fully related but on the topic of vehicles no one makes ww1 1/56 tanks in plastic.
Ide go crazy if we saw things like the Italian fiat 2000 or a7v in plastic. One day someone will do it...
@Steffen Seitter an FT17 as mentioned in another thread would likely be great and work for both world wars though that is more on the proper light tank side when it comes sizeing.
Also armored cars would be intresting though this next two are bit more "rule of cool" than practical for history games given the numbers built (maybe I should repost them in the Sci-Fic thread).
RF-8 Aerosan. Iconic Soviet vehicle. Approximately 2000 built.
No armor, 7.62x54R DT Machinegun in the nose. Skidding around the snow and ice at the speed of fast.
NKL-26 Aerosan.
Armored nose, one machinegun, sometimes used to pull ski troops.
Captured examples were used by the Finns.
Would it sell? Maybe. Particularly if supported by a snow/amoeba suit Infantry release.
Aerosans were used well into the 50s (60s?). Picture the CCCP battling Grays or the Thing with these in the frozen wastes. You're welcome.
@JTam Outside winter and James Bond games, no real use. that said I would totally get a couple.
The T-60 tank. A very important weapon for the Soviets in the first half of the war. Over 6000 were built. Surprisingly hard to find 1/56 or 1/48 kits for it.
Captured T-60s were also put into service by the Germans.
Also not a bad vehicle in game terms for Bolt Action. The autocannon is tasty and it's a low price way to get access to tank riders.
Actual Ost Front T-60 combat photographs:
@Mark Hoffman Rubicon are releasing an FT17, and you can gt them 3D printed. But its such a cute tank lets have more!
Kettenkrad, and German motorbikes and sidecars, including for Afrika Korps (different heads) would seem obvious small vehicles that are in demand and would suit plastic.
For WW1 it would be great to see Rolls Royce Armoured Cars in plastic. Also saw action, in a slightly different configuration, in early WW2.
Found this T-60 video.
Really well done. It's in Russian but still worth a watch.
These vehicles are usually maligned as completely inferior to the T-34 and without combat value.
Seeing the video persuaded me otherwise (at least on the combat value part). Sure it's useless against other armor. But the armament and armor makes it extremely useful against Infantry and light vehicles. (Remember this is 1941 or 42. Infantry would have to rely on thin on the ground antitank guns, their own armor, or suicidal bravery with antitank grenades to deal with this thing). The silhouette is incredibly low. You could hide this anywhere.
@Corwen Broch
Yes, I know that Rubicon have plans to release the Renault FT-17 in plastic, in 1/56 scale. Most of vehicles in the list that started this off are available in resin, or 3D printed.
That is one of the reasons why I asked what scale would Wargames Atlantic make their plastic armored vehicle kits in. The list that Steffan Seitter made is a solid list, but in 1/56 scale, the M3/M3A1 Stuart, Panzer 38t, the early Marder and Hetzer have already been released by Warlord, and the Hetzer, T-26,BA-64, and SDKFZ 222 have already been released by Rubicon. I don't know if Wargames Atlantic would want to to make a kit that is already available in plastic in 1/56, or if they would rather produce a plastic kit that would back up their infantry sets available, or if 1/56 would even be the scale that they decide upon.
I would like to see Wargames Atlantic make their vehicles in plastic in 1/56 scale, and vehicles which would support their existing and upcoming 1/56 scale figure kits.
@Mark Hoffman
Excellent review of what's already out there.
This is why I hope WGA makes kits in 1/48th.
1. I think 1/48 is better match for 28mm. Most 28mm figures at this point are as tall as 1/48 figures and stockier.
(1/56 T-34 with tank riders. Compare with actual T-34s below. Also note how the 1/56 tank commander is significantly smaller than the 28mm tank riders).
This excellent article with some great comparison pics sums it up better than I ever could:
http://www.frontline-command.com/blog/the-question-of-scale-for-w-w-ii-28mm-gaming/
There's also this thread on this forum:
And some great comparison pics Sam Bellamy posted here:
https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/48739/light-vehicles-possibilities
I truly believe if someone new to the hobby bought WGA's Italian Infantry and a 1/56 tankette - post assembly they would say "What the heck is this garbage. Only half his body would fit inside." Kind of a turn off.
WGA could make 1/48th kits and just label them 28mm scale. It's at least as true as saying 1/56 corresponds with 28mm.
2. As you stated the market is inundated with 1/56 plastic kits, and even more 1/56 resin kits. It's barely worth wading into that market to battle with established kit makers.
The 1/48th gaming models field is wide open.
(Yes there are a limited selection of 1/48th armor models. They are however display models with dozens to hundreds of pieces that generally result in a model too frail for the game's table. Contrast that with a gaming model Rubicon manufactures which has 1/4th the number of parts and results in a robust model.)
Too my knowledge there are ZERO 1/48 plastic gaming models made and only Blitzkrieg and First Corp doing a few 1/48th resin models. (If you know of other sources please tell me ;) )
@Mark Hoffman 1/56 is the obvious scale, otherwise it will look odd against other manufacturer;s vehicles
Conversely 1/56 vehicles look odd next to the 28mm Infantry.
These seems like a chance for WGA to single handedly really improve 28mm 20th Century war gaming.
Japanese Type 94 Te-Ke tankette.
In service from the first day of the war to the last. Approximately 600 built.
Fought in China were it faced off against Chinese operated FT-17s and CV-33s!
Fought against the Soviets in 1939 and 1945.
Fought against the ANZACs.
Fought against the Americans.
This thing is small.
(That's a Type 94 on the back deck of the M4).
I completely forgot the Type 94 Te-Ke. Also the Type 95 Ha-Go Tank.
In my oppinion 1/56 is the wrong scale for 28mm Wargaming.
M22 Locust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M22_Locust
Not the most prolific nor successful tank model but it was used briefly by the British despite being American built and it is listed in the Konflikt 47 army lists.
@Grumpy Gnome
It's a mini M4 that vomits out of gliders. What's not to like!
Kinda leads to the Tetrarch as well. Same concept but slightly more widely used.
(In British service)
(Tetrarch in Soviet service)
Soviet early tanks - BT5, BT7
And early armored cars - BA 10, BA 20. To be honest, a little big for this request, but not many currently in production, and used by a ton of people from Russia to Chinese (both nationalist and communist).
@JTam 1/48 is already well covered by companies like Tamiya. Also For table top perpouses doing 1/56 is prefered cause its the standard across all games. if WGA does 1/48 not only would they be competeing with much larger companies but also lack a true market to set too.
Tamiya has a limited selection of 1/48 armor kits. (Nothing like number and variety of their 1/35th armor kits though). Hobby Boss makes a few types. There's some boutique kits available from the Ukraine and Russiam. There's some older out of print Japanese 1/48 kits you can find from time to time on Ebay. Etc.
That being said these are all display model kits. The pleasure is supposed to be in the building so some of these kits have literally 100s of parts. The resulting model is usually far too frail to survive the games table. An example is a 1/48 Ukrainian kit of a GAZ truck I bought. The front suspension was dozens of tiny pieces. I gave it up as a bad job, it wasn't going to work as a game piece.
WGA wouldn't be competing with Tamiya if they did 1/48. Tamiya's (and the other above mentioned) models are unsuitable for gaming.
WGA would face stiff and direct competition in 1/56. Rubicon and Warlord Games/Italeri have made 1/56 plastic kits of just about every significant WW2 vehicle type.
Doing research for my switch over from 1/56 to 1/48 I would say 1/48 still lacks availability of a lot of vehicles.
I am hoping the 1/48 kits I do get are not too delicate. The first couple are on their way thanks to a good eBay deal.
@Grumpy Gnome
What did you get?
I know where you're coming from re inf vs veh at 1/56, however I would say there is a huge difference in 1/48, you then need to think about the rest of your scenery too. The example you've given is 1/56 WG resin mini, those riders are metal too, I wonder how, other plastic figures fair against, say rubicons 1/56 t-34/76 or t-34/85 (their tanks are a little more accurate rivetwise). I would suggest folks take a look at the "tabletop cp" vids on you tube or shoot travis (TT cp is his baby) on the Facebook group (same name), I'm sure he'd be more than happy to point you in the right direction or post some pics. He's a fan of 1/48 vehicles vs 28mm and has done comparisons in the past.
@JTam A pair of early war tanks, a P38(t) and a Matilda. Still not sure exactly how I will use them at this stage but both will mark fine display pieces even if I do not manage to fit them in a game.
I am not sure what scale the Cromwell is, I got it used on eBay, but the footprint looks similar considering the deck plate next to the Matilda.
Whereas the P38(t) deck plate looks much smaller.
@Grumpy Gnome
Awesome Brother.
They could face off in the Battle of France.
I believe Matildas did some real damage to the 7th Panzer Division which was widely equipped with 38Ts. Great excuse to pick up WGA French Infantry who had to be somewhere about during the operation. Also one of the rare occasions where you can pretend an 88mm and Erwin Rommel are justified on your 28mm tabletop.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arras_(1940)
Or they could face off in the Eastern Front. Matilda's made it to the front as early as the Battle for Moscow 1941. The 38T was still in extremely wide use by the Germans 41-42.
Lots of cool options. Enjoy!
@Grumpy Gnome
I don't know what rules set you use, but I have and enjoyed the "Germany Strikes" supplement for Bolt Action. It covers all the early war campaigns in Europe.
I'm sure the more recent "Battle of France" campaign book has even more, but I don't have that one.
Edit:
Good write up about the fight:
Another incredible write up. I don't know who Mike is but his research/site is amazing.
https://mikesresearch.com/2021/02/28/arras-france-1940/amp/
He has the license plate number and name of each Matilda in the action!
And pictures of most of them. Really impressed.
@S. Oatley
I'll check out Tabletop CP - Thanks!
Sam Bellamy posted some outstanding 1/56 T34 vs 1/48 T34 vs plastic Infantry pictures here:
https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/48739/light-vehicles-possibilities
I'm not sure whose manufactured the plastic 1/56 T34 but it appears to be just as undersized.
It's worth noting that most of the Warlord plastic Infantry is bigger than most of their metal (and usually older) infantry.
@JTam Wow! That is some detailed research. I have some Bolt Action books but prefer Chain of Command from Toofatlardies. @S. Oatley I have watched quite a few Tabletop CP videos and they have influenced my views.
@Grumpy Gnome
Chain of Command sounds really good. I doubt I'll ever find an opponent to play with, but I may pick up the rules as I enjoy seeing how different games solve different problems and represent different effects.
Mrs. GG is not into 20th Century warfare so Chain of Command will be a solo endeavor for me. She is willing to try Sharp Practice (Napoleonic or French & Indian War) but it will take some serious convincing to get her to try Chain of Command.
That's still pretty fortunate. My Wife and wargaming are a straight no-go. I still have some hopes of brainwashing the offspring.
The M6 GMC Fargo. No more and no less than a 37mm gun mounted en portee on a 3/4 ton truck.
While not a terrible successful vehicle it has an early war an "Army at Dawn" charm.
When conceived in NOV of 1941 not a completely bad idea. When put into action in Operation Torch it was largely inadequate. Would serve in the Pacific until 1944. In the Pacific the gun was still adequate against enemy armor. Supposedly we foisted some off on the Free French as well.
The gun was usually used pointed to the rear (opposite of the above). This allowed the driver to remain in his seat, receive some protection from the gun shield, and facilitated rapid exfils.
OK, got a neat one
The Tachanka.
The Tachanka was used during WW1, the Bolshevik Revolution, and WW2 to provide fire support for cavalry units. Makes sense: high mobility and speed lets it get in place to support cavarly actions.
Perhaps provide crews (or at least alternate heads) to represent WW1/Bolshevik Revolution/Polish-Soviet War versus WW2 usage.
(Representation of Bolshevik Revolution/Polish- Soviet War time frame).
Good write up on the weapons of the Polish-Soviet War, to include tachankas.
(WW2, 1943 or later based on the uniforms).
(Soviet troops 1941 Tehran, Iran.)
Used throughout WW2 and by some accounts into the '50s.
A piece of equipment so cool it has it's own song:
BONUS POINTS if the tachanka comes with a figure to represent the fictional yet legendary Bolshevik heroine - Anka the Machine Gunner aka анка пулеметчицаа.
A character from an early Soviet movie she has since entered the popular consciousness of Russia and other CIS states.
(In the movie.)
(A more contemporary portrayal.)
Clip from the movie. Reds and Whites go at it. Anka stacks bodies:
@Mark Hoffman The FT is apparently in the pipeline in plastic from elsewhere :)
Another fun one. Honestly a weird hybrid of a an Infantry and vehicle kit.
What is it?
The Welbike.
Over 3000 built. Used from 1942 to 1945, notably at Arnhem.
Nothing says elite killer like tooling around on one of these.
They folded up and were dropped by canister.
Any kit, is going to have to include a few canisters like above.
Paras would yank then out of their canisters, unfold them and off they went.
Chief users were the British Airborne.
But these definitely look like Polish Paras:
‐---------
M29 Weasel. Hard working utility vehicle with exceptional cross country mobility.
A couple of pictures I took of one posted here:
Back to the Tachanka for a bit.
Sarissa makes a nice one:
https://sarissa-precision.com/products/tachanka-
And that fact that you're making a wood cart out of wood is pleasing. But it's just the cart.
You have to source the machine gun, ammo boxes, crew, horses, harnesses, and traces yourself.
WGA producing the above in a team up with Sarissa would be awesome.
The Ford GPA aka the Seep (Sea Jeep). Basically an amphibious Jeep.
Used by the Americans:
As well as the Soviets:
Of course I can't find it right now, but I swear I've seen a picture of a Soviet Seep with a Maxim machine gun strapped to the "hood." Pretty cool.
The Seep was not considered terribly successful by American forces, but the Soviets liked it so much they made their own copy the GAZ-46.
The GAZ-46's most famous action was securing Crystal Skulls in the worst movie ever made.
@Cole Lassell I'd like a plastic A7V, but which one? They were handmade, and each one was different: Different panel lines, different door details, different all over.
I would like to see any A7V tank. As a matter of fact, ANY tank from the Great War made in plastic. But, the British Mk.IV and the Renault FT-17, which is slated to be released by Rubicon models,would probably make the most sense, both seeing use with other nations, and with the FT-17 both World Wars
I have noticed that non of Rommel's Command cars can be found on the market (at least I haven't found any) while his halftrack "greif" and his captured Dorchester armored command bus can be found
I think a kit for his Horch 901 type 40 (either kfz. 15 or kfz. 21 or both) would be huge... especially seeing how frequently he was photographed in them.
Link of his many cars
@Joe Menz
Nice link. Thanks.
