Light Vehicles Possibilities


  • I realize there is another thread about tanks but wanted to make one more focused on the possibility of lighter vehicles. 

    I personally would like Death Fields to focus more on skirmish gameplay vs the large army battles of say 40k and with that in mind I'll list below what vehicles I think would fit with each faction.  

     

    Grognards

    FT-17 Light Tank

    Cute little tank that lore wise could be used by the Grognards because it was the first "modern" tank. 

    With it being a 2 person light tank it would fight perfect in a skirmish style game and would give the Grognards a heavy weapon to pair with their calvary we will hopefully get down the line.  

    Possible Loadouts:

    -Laser gatling gun for ranged anti infantry

    -Cannon or mortar for anti armor or emplacement 

    -Flamethrower for shock and awe 

     

    Space Brits

    Bren Gun Carrier 

    One of the most produced armored vehicles in history, and simple kit to make with it being open topped.

    The carrier would give the Brits small unit transport capacity and could also have an up armed version mounting heaver guns. 

    Possible Loadouts:

    -Transport version with passengers being able to use their weapons and maybe a mounted machine gun

    -"Gun" variant that sacrifices transport space for a cannon or flamethrower instead 

     

    Cannon Fodder

    Construction Power Armor

    Not a vehicle technically but could be something they stole or scavenged for a construction site that would give them something stronger than just infantry. 

    Would be a very modular set with actual construction parts as well as jury rigged weapon systems. 

    Bonus points if the set could include spare heads so the armor could be used by other factions as well. 

    Loadouts:

    No set loadouts for this one, more of add whatever weapons you wanted onto the arms and torso. 

    -Saws, drills, rebar clubs, etc.

    -Flamethrowers, low tech autoguns, industrial nail guns, stolen laser cannons

     

    Einherjar

    Not sure on what would fit for a light vehicle for these guys, I imagine them more having genetically enhanced animals like bears or wolves than vehicles. 

    Please let me know if you have any suggestions!

     

    Raumjager

    With the Raumjager being based on the Germans you have a ton of vehicles to choose from but most are too large in my opinion, even a Sd Kfz 251 halftrack is a little large for a skirmish game. 

    With that in mind I here are 2 options I've seen discussed elsewhere on the forum. 

    Ketternkrad

    Funky looking tracked motorcycle that could look pretty cool decked out with some sci fi gear. 

    would be able to carry 2 or 3 infantry on it and like the Bren Carrier could have a weaponized version. 

    With it being a glorified motorcycle it could be tiny and fit in most places infantry can. 

    Loadouts:

    -Transport, standard version with no mounted weapons, mounted infantry could fire their rifles, etc. 

    -Self propelled gun, the front tire could be removed and then it could mount a heavy cannon or machine gun and act more like a mobile heavy weapon platform. 

    -Rocket battery, mount a rocket pod on the back where the passengers go and use it as a barrage weapon. 

    Wiesal AWC

    This vehicle is a more modern pick but would fit nicely with the Raumjager's being founded from paratroopers with it being an air transportable vehicle.

    Could have a special rule allowing it to be airdropped into the middle of the battle field. 

    Loadouts:

    -Autocannon, combo anti infantry and light vehicles

    -Missiles, could be an indirect artillery platform or just pack more of a punch against large groups of infantry and vehicles

    -APC, the real life APC version is technically based on the lengthened Wiseal 2 but could be included anyways to give more options. 

     

    Hover Bikes

    These bikes could be for cross faction use and have a wide range of body styles; civilian, light weight scout, armored military, etc. 

    This category would be very open to modification and could be transport only or have a mounted weapon as well. 

     

    These are a few ideas I came up with or stole from others on the forum here, do you think these would be a good fit for Death Fields? Let my know of any suggestions you have!



  • I really like the sci-fi FT17 idea.

    Did you see Pzkpfw Steves' awesome FT17 Sentinal here?:

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/44411/my-grognard-vehicle-3d-models

    Also of course, really like the sci-fi Kettenkrad idea.

    Edit:

    Like the Bren gun carrier concept too.  

    And the hoverbikes. 

    I guess I like all the ideas.


  • Einherjer need Trikes.  For reasons.


  • @JTam Yea I saw his walker, its pretty awesome looking, but I was thinking the FT-17 as a regular tank would probably appeal to more people since its more "grounded"

    Some Einherher Bikers on souped up Trikes would be pretty funny. 


  • A little sci-fi FT17. 

    How would you sci-fi up/ modernize an FT17 to survive on a far future battleground? 

    Smaller modern track links.  Bigger, updated engine which causes changes to the back deck and funky exhausts.  (No changes to suspension as it's just too important to the look).  Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA) blocks on hull front and turret.  Smoke launchers.   Laser cannon for the main gun with external power cables snaking out of the sides of the turret to the gun.  Improved turret cupola with all around vision blocks.   Cupola needs a hatch that can be posed open for a Commander figure.  The little front drivers hatch needs to be able to be open/raised so as you can see the little Grognard head of your choice driving it.  

    Alternate main weapon for turret:

    Large flamer.  Automatic cannon.  

    Bonus points if you have an optional gnarly chainsaw attachment you can stick on the front of the hull.


  • Maybe WGA could make a standard FT17 to support their WW1/WW2 French Infantry kit.  And sell it with a second sci-fi bits sprue in a different box to support the Grognards.  

    I vote for 1/48 if an actual FT17 kit is done.  

    (1/48 fits modern manufacture 28mm miniatures better.  Has cross over appeal for modelers.  1/48 wargaming models market place is far less crowded.)


  • A standard FT 17 with a sci-fi upgrade sprue would probably be the best way for WGA to sell it. They could do the same thing with the Ketternkrad for the Germans and the Bren Carrier if they make WW2 British. 

    Crossover sets are a great marketing idea. 

    Not sure on the 1/48 scale idea however, I think the WW1/WW2 sets are not heroic so the FT 17 could look huge next to them. I like the idea of keeping it scaled appropriately so it blends together better. Much rather it look a little small next to the Grognards, it was a tiny tank, than huge next to regular WW1 French. 


  • @Dalton McCormick 

    Reference 1/56 versus 1/48 it's all I the eye of the beholder........

    But in my experience 1/56 is just too small for 28mm.  (I should do up a post with comparison pics....)  Look at the tank commander that came with your 1/56 kit (who is the right size for the vehicle) - he's tiny compared to your infantry.  It looks like it's bring your kid to war day.  1/48 isn't too big, it's the right size.  Your Mileage May Vary.


  • Is there so much difference in scale between the Grognards and WW1 French miniatures?

    I think someone posted pics somewhere.... off to look.


  • I think I heard on an interdimensional Death Fields game broadcast that the Cannon Fodder's "power-armor" are actually construction exo-suits stolen from the hellish work-camps on the prison planet that the Cannon Fodder were abducted from in the middle of a particularly violent jailbreak.  These machins, souped up with makeshift armor and clumsily-repared weapons scavenged from the battlefields after a fight, are not precisely vehicles, as you say, but they do make for entertaining crowd-pleasers when unleashed onto the battlefield with the motors for its saws, drills, or grinders screaming, as the other teams' infantry scramble for cover!

     

    As for the Einherjar, they might be using anything, but I saw them using a smaller version of one of these vehicles used for drilling shelters into the low mountains of their heavy-gravity home world:

    Fun facts:  the crowds went wild every time that machine would pop up out of the ground behind the Einherjar's enemies' fortified positions, but the crowd went even wilder when the machine's atomic engine exploded, showering the battlefield with radioactive debris and bombarding all contestants and many spectators with a hilarious burst of gamma rays, resulting in the Einherjar's lead collapsing into a tie game, 0 to 0.  The Einherjar coaches took the whole thing with surprisingly philosophical under-reaction:  these stocky combatants are used to living dangerously, and at least it wasn't a defeat!


  • I'd be all-in on that construction power armor!


  • Cannon fodder aren't formers miners or prisoners, they're desperate veterans on their last fight. I think even a command box would be unsuited to them. at most, something scavenged and very illegal. although hover bikes or live mounts might work, with each one being more valuable than the individual using it, or some generic vechicles belonging to the employers. after all, most cannon fodder won't survive their next fight, and they can't come back.


  • "These are the dregs of the Death Fields sport: the washouts, the mental cases, the warriors who just can't cut it or the teams whose strategy, training, or cunning have fallen behind new, younger franchises... These are also the one final chance for an owner to profit. Cobbled together into a horde and given basic weaponry, the typical Cannon Fodder bout is an ugly display of sheer numbers thrown at a standard roster team. Defeat is an almost foregone conclusion, but not always, and audiences often root for these men, women, and beings sent to fight to a final, Real Death."

    The dregs and washouts, mental cases, and warriors who just couldn't cut it?  I think it covers a lot of ground.  Combined with the chains, shackles, and collars that come with the set, I can easily see some of these guys pulled from the most violent prisons and mental asylums from across space and time, to help reinforce the broken, beaten, burned-out, and outdated leftovers from past Death Fields matches, where their lack of discipline and training and teamwork are almost made up for by their sheer, diabolically inventive wickedness and violence....

    I find something cynically dystopian about them, as if they were given a choice:  Either execution, a life sentence of hard labor in the unobtainium mines of Altair 9, or an opportunity to redeem themselves... on the Death Fields!


  • @Yronimos Whateley I sort of forgot about most of that except "standard equipment" "final death" "fallen behind new, younger franchises" and "last chance for an owner to profit", but lack of proper, heavy equipment still makes sense to me. I imagine exo-suits would be a bit too expensive for them. but mounts and bikes could probably cover plenty of niches without making them too setting specific.


  • @Dalton McCormick If I am following you train of thought right I agree I think.  I would rather have a "regular tank" version of the FT-17 for history gaming in historical scale instead of Death Fields scale.

    That said if its going to be for Death Fields first in its “heroic scale” it should be SciFied up right out of the box no question, otherwise we should just stick with MENG’s Toon Tanks, same deal in general for historically inspired vehicles (either scified up out of the box or Historical scale for history gaming which is conservatively is 1/56 to 1/50).

    Of the things you mentioned I think the generic “everyone can use it but mostly cannonfodder use it” construction/power armor is actually the best option followed by the hover bikes.


  • Einherjar on trikes would definitely be my vote. 


  • @Brian Van De Walker  Thinking more on the subject, I agree and think if WGA is going to release vehicle kits they should scale them first to historical and then offer the sci fi upgrade kits to convert them to Death Fields. 

    @JTam  I guess the actual scale doesn't matter that much, more importantly they need to look in scale compared to WGA's miniatures, if that means they end up closer to 1/48 than 1/56 so be it.

    And over all the best bet is probably to go with the multi faction kits first such as the construction armor and hover bikes to test the markets with something that the largest amount of people will be interested in. 


  • if created for historicals use, the Renault FT-17 would be a perfect one to start with.

    it served in WW1 with the French, British, and American forces, and post WW1 it went on to continue to serve with the British and French, and to be copied and liscense produced by America (M1917), Italy (FIAT 3000) and Soviet Union (modifed into the T-18) and saw a lot of use during interwar conflicts. during WW2 the french used them at the start of the war, and they were in service with a lot of smaller countries (poland, yugoslavia, Greece, etc.) as well as places like china, despite being considered obsolete. Nazi Germany also used captured french ones for airbase defense and to patrol occupied territory across europe (to free up more modern tanks for the frontlines)

    so it is a fairly ubiqitous vehicle for the great war line and can easily be used with the world ablaze line as well.
    combined with the scifi upgrade sprue, that is three product lines that could take advantage of one kit.


  • Well said Mithril2098. 

    The FT-17 is an incredible useful kit for WW1 AND WW2 gaming.  For those more into the esoteric one could use the FT-17 for the Polish-Soviet war or even perhaps the Soviet-Afgan war (among numerous other conflicts).

    (Getting around in WW2)

    (A supposedly still operational one in the Soviet-Afghan War)

    And it would just be a great little model for the sci-fi table top.  Can't help but notice it's basically an armored Sentinel.  


  • I would love to see this done as a basic kit with sci-fi options (legs and or hover jets), as well as the Einherjar on choppers and trikes, which would blend them in to my scrunty army.


  • Would they sell that many FT17s?

    I honestly can't see it. How many do they have to sell to turn a profit?

    I think much better to concentrate on sets that will sell loads.


  • @Michael McEwan 

    Only WGA knows how much they are selling of what products.

    However, we know WGA continues to expand the WW1 line.  One might conclude it is profitable.  Two of the major powers in WW1 used the FT17 extensively.  Anyone buying the WGA WW1 French set is probably going to buy a FT17. 

    If they do WW1 Americans anyone buying that will probably get an FT17.  (What would my 28mm LTC.  Patton command otherwise?)

    The FT17 is fairly popular (but only available in resin/printed) for Bolt Action/WW2.  Someone did quite well at tournaments zerging multiple FT17s.  

    It seems likely (from sneak peaks) that WGA is coming out with Italian tankette kits.  I can only imagine the wide spread, two wars FT17 would be at LEAST as popular.

    Having the sci-fi sprue/version on the FT17 REALLY changes things though.  Let's address the 500 pound gorilla - I think one can safely say there are more 4OK players than all the historical players (all periods, all scales, all rules sets) put together.  A sci-fi FT17 fits the WW1 in the far flung future look of Guard tanks perfectly.  It meshes well with the new hotness of the trench fighting Krieg.  It easily matches the weapons and rough size of a Guard Sentinel.  It would sell - a lot.


  • @JTam

    FT17 also was used by a good number of minor powers (including China) in WW2 as well as  Japan and Germany in WW2, likewise in WW1 I think there were examples of Gemans capturing it.

      So yeah it would likely sell very well, frankly I am surprised Rubicon and Italeri  has not both made one yet. Plus its steampunky, so you could probably add upgrades sprues for Fantasy and VSF as well as SciFi.

    Also a different note, I heard somewhere that supposedly the FT17 was inspiration  for Bonaparte from Domain Tank Police though I don't quite see it now.😆

     


  • @Dalton McCormick 

    "With the Raumjager being based on the Germans you have a ton of vehicles to choose from but most are too large in my opinion, even a Sd Kfz 251 halftrack is a little large for a skirmish game."

    What about the Sd Kfz 250 halftrack?  It's not Kettenkrad tiny, but it's pretty small.

    There were numerous variants - command, radio, ammo carriers, and weapons carriers/platforms.  Some variants carried a mortar, others an automatic cannon, and some a 75mm howitzer among other weapons.

     

     

     

     


  • @JTam Sd Kfz 250 could definitely work. It is a little bigger than the FT-17 or Bren Carrier but I think it would still be small enough to fit the "skirmish" game size. 

    And all those weapons options would give a lot of options on how to use it on the tabletop. 

    One of the reasons I mentioned the Kettenkrad and Wiesal instead of the 250 is that they are both airborne vehicles which fits with the Raumjager's origins as paratroopers.

    But the Sd Kfz would still be a great option and would be very good to have for WW2 Germans. 


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