So, Reading @Brian Van De Walker and @Yronimos Whateley thoughts on Fantasy rangers, it sounds like an upgrade sprue similar to the scifi one would be a great addition to change the romans, Irish, Conquistadors and Goths in to fantasy minis.
So what kinds of things would you want on this sprue? I liked @Yronimos Whateley 's Idea about the Solomon Kane style hats and pistols... What else?
What heads or head gear would you want? Types of weapons, accesories...?
Probably went past the boundaries of "change the roman, irish, conquistadors and goths" there, but those are things on my mind at the moment.
@Blutze what is an A926?
A specific pollaxe. THE pollaxe, really. This one.
Though I think I'd be fine with anything that is axe+hammer+topspike. Its just that I want this character to be wearing late 14th century transitional armor instead of post-medieval fullplate, and Perry's kits with the right armor have only axe+backspike+topspike or hammer+backspike+topspike. Even the boxes I'll probably get to start a Warhammer empire army don't have the right bloody weapon.
So I guess that entry on the list should be taken with a grain of salt. It was influenced more by the need to vent than that being a sensible suggestion.
@Blutze Ok, that is a cool weapon... so yeah I am with you. I had googled A926... and all i was getting was what looked like a car stereo... :)
@William Redford I would actually like stuff to make up the uniformed sets from the WW1 and Imperal conquest for industrail fantasy. So I am thinking:
@Blutze I think it might be smarter to do a spellcaster sprue/kit with options for druids, they are not exactly a box onto themselves subject.
Glad you liked the ideas!
I think that if there were to be any fantasy upgrade sprue to do first, it would probably best start with some Elf and Hobgoblin heads: not a very exciting foundation, I think, but hobgoblins in fancy samurai-style helmets seem to be a popular request among fantasy tabletop gamers for whatever reason, and either type of head can instantly upgrade pretty much any Wargames Atlantic historical Dark Ages kit to generic fantasy pretty much as-is! (The Irish and Goths would make fine Tolkien-style elves, given the option of some typical pointy-eared and long-haired efl heads, while the Franks and Late Romans would make fine fantasy hobgoblins, given the option of those inevitable Samurai-style hobgoblin heads.)
It's just a question of what to add to that base in the form of weapon arms and accessories - if the first Death Fields sprue (a half-sprue size) is used as a template - which seems fair enough to me - it looks like there's room for two sets of 5 or 6 heads (that is, enough room for a small selection of Elf and Hobgoblin heads), and two, maybe three sets of different paired arm/weapon options for five or six figures. That would give us one or two fantasy weapon options suitable for arming a single sprue from a historical kit, which probably already includes spears/polearms, swords/melee weapons, and bows or slings.
Most Dark Ages historical kits will include broadswords or shortswords for the melee option with the occasional throwing axe or knife (or the great little warclubs from the WGA Dark Age Irish kit), so I'm thinking the fantasy weapon options for a first sprue might best include some some of the popular but uncommon fantasy melee weapon options: maces and morningstars, battle axes, scimitars, warhammers, flails, and spiked clubs.... Given the elf and hobgoblin-samurai theme, though, perhaps something better suited for elves and hobgoblins might work better: scimitars and rapiers, perhaps?
That sprue, combined with any of Wargames Atlantic's excellent Dark Ageshistorical kits, would pretty easily cover a lot of popular fantasy ground, without the need for a dedicated elf or hobgoblin box.
So, Fantasy Sprue #1:
Then, in no particular order:
For a second sprue, there's at least one thread in the forums suggesting a fantasy monster head sprue for various weird fantasy creatures, which sounds to me like it would be great for converting Dark Ages figures into cat-people, wolf-men, ape-men, demons, pig-faced orcs, squid-faced sanity-eaters, and so on. Include a few more melee weapon options left over from the Hobgoblin/Elf sprue (clubs, flails, etc.), and you're probably set. This might be best done as a fairly random beast-man sprue, though something focused on one or two factions, similarly to the Elf/Hobgoblin suggestion, might prove more popular (say, enough bits to convert five or six figures into either cat-people or devil-born....)
A third fantasy sprue might be dedicated to fantasy spellcaster gear: staves, wands, grimoires, scrolls, potions, familiars, and the like, as well as the usual array of beardy wizard heads in pointy hats, gaunt necromancer heads, skeletal/mummified lich heads, cleric holy symbols, charms and amulets, and so on... unlike warrior armies, spellcasters tend to be an individualistic lot, so there's room for a lot of variety with little or no duplication here. If you keep enough of the sleeves and hats generic, this kit can upgrade Victorain up to modern figures into (say) gothic/pulp horror cultists and investigators, or modern urban fantasy characters, or sci-fi psychers, or post-apocalyptic veterans of a psychic war, or whatever.
More than one person has suggested an undead/gothic horror conversion sprue for turning historical figures into zombies, ghouls, and other living dead. I think that sounds like a fun idea, and to me, the greater the variety of undead and ghouls that can be included in such a sprue (vampires, mummies, maniacs, ghosts, bogeymen, etc.) Weapons options can be kept relatively simple here - given the subject matter, I think a few things like a meat cleaver, butcher knife, claw-hammer, sickle, crude club, femur bone, and the like work well, as would bare claws, but I'd rather see a good variety of monster head optons than monster weapons. And, frankly, I rather see a full-on generic gothic horror set than just a sprue, with gaunt, twisted bodies dressed in rags to match the heads and simple weapons, but that seems to be a heavily "Your Mileage May Vary" situation, compared to a dedicated zombie kit (for example).
And naturally, I'd enjoy that upgrade sprue of those "Grimdark" Solomon Kane style bits, for sure - some of those great wide-brimmed,conical hats, the blackpowder guns and swords (with off-handed pistol and dagger options, naturally, staves, tomes, amulets and holy symbols, capes.... I'm dying to see the gaming industry shift gears for fantasy gaming settings out of pale and slavish imitations of Tolkien, and this would certainly be one alternative I'd really enjoy seeing! This add-on sprue would just need a suitable historical kit to source the bodies and more generic weapons from. Appropriate additions to Wargames Atlantic's new Reniassance line would certainly do nicely here. I'd be fine using @Brian Van De Walker 's pitch for generic cuirass-trousers-and-boots militia as a foundation here. I suppose this add-on sprue would work well with the conquistadors, too, come to think of it. I think it's a question of how niche this set might be, though: I think I can see a lot more people going for generic fantasy elves and hobgoblins, but I'd hope they'd be willing to give a different flavor of fantasy enough of a chance to make this Solomon Kane-style set economically viable!
@Yronimos Whateley They actually have plans to do an elf set so a head sprue isn't needed, though it looked really LOTR generic, so maybe some parts to do something like this out of the box would be a good "add to":
Likewise I can't help but feel that Hobgoblins, Samurai or otherwise, would actually be a good set idea. It might even be a good set to add exotic asian weapons that didn't make it into the boxer set and probably won't be added to the warring states sets like the repeating crossbow.
And if Hobgoblins where done as samurai or even just something Asian, it would actually work with Dark Ages, Renissiance, Victorian, Asian and even JRPG industrail age style fantasy, it kinda of sells itself.
Sounds like I missed an elf preview!
Weirdly, D&D style lawful evil hobgoblin armies always seemed like a natural enough subject for a wargaming army to me, but one that always seemed to take a back seat to GW style orcs and goblins. I think that the relatively recently-produce Oathmark goblins and Wargames Atlantic goblins seem close enough to D&D hobgoblins to me, short of that specific Samurai theme (also a D&D invention, I think) which I see pop up in fantasy miniature wish-lists.
If there's an Elf set in the works, but I assume no hobgoblins, that does perhaps open the possibility of hobgoblin bits sharing a sprue with that other specific orc/goblin wishlist entry, the "pig-headed orcs" (which more certainly comes from old-edition D&D illustrations!) about a dozen orc and hobgoblin heads in these distinctive flavors, with a selection of suitably goblin melee weapons like axes, scimitars, morning-stars, spiked flails, and sure: why not some repeating crossbows? The sprue might work nicely for some alternate bits for the Goblins set, or with any historical set..... (Could be some Death Fields possibilities in there, too, though I'm not sure I could quite picture that.)
A full-on vaguely samurai/ashigaru-themed hobgoblin set, however, might end up being a popular set, at least for a vocal niche. There are a lot of distinctive "exotic" weapons that don't seem to make it to plastic very often, and that might be a great place to find the most fantasy-friendly ones in one place: the usual sword/shortsword/knife blade trio (katana/wakizashi/tano), the naginata greatsword, the yari pole-arm, the kanabo warclub, the yumi longbow, and (for fantasy gunplay) there were some rather beautiful arquebuses ot thre as well.
On the gripping hand, I have a feeling one or more proper historical ashigaru/samurai sets would also be wildly popular - maybe no reason a these could be produced separately from fantasy hobgoblin sets, or that fantasy bits couldn't be included in a historical set, but I think that if I were to choose one vs. the other, the historical ashigaru and samurai kits seem like the strongest economic opton (at least, from my amateur armchair, the historical kits seem less niche than the specific fantasy version, and different enough from the existing goblin set to avoid competing with it!)
On reflection, that Spellcaster Sprue seems like it would be stronger as a spellcaster box of some sort: a box of coweled monks/cultists, for example, seem like a great opportunity for a large fantasy faction with historical uses, which might also benefit from magic-user bits.
Designing these sprues to get the most bang for the manufacturing buck is tricky! :)
I think it might be smarter to do a spellcaster sprue/kit with options for druids, they are not exactly a box onto themselves subject.
That'd work too. The current warrior boxes don't have any a robed bodies, so it'd have to be a full kit and not just an upgrade sprue either way.
short of that specific Samurai theme (also a D&D invention, I think) which I see pop up in fantasy miniature wish-lists.
At least in D&D, they are specifically the 5th edition style. Before, hobgoblins weren't really visually distinct in their gear and more in... formations and activities. And goblin-shaped heads with generic evil gear we all have coming out of our ears, because the WGA goblin set has ONE HUNDRED AND TWO heads for its 30 bodies.
I'm starting to warm up to gunpowder in fantasy because (as mentioned) I'm planning a Warhammer empire army, which may even touch upon witchhunters (roughly in that Solomon Kane aesthetic). But modern-ish gasmasks as shown in the other thread or already available with the WGA lizards would probably go to far for me. Maybe there are enough ideas to make one sprue of actual fantasy stuff and one of like, victorian/edwardian onwards?
Oh and while we are on the topic of sprues: My local store apparently can't get individual sprues from the distributor (the ones I asked for were from Warlord Games and Perry, but the reply was pretty generic). And ordering such a small thing myself usually ends up with more shipping than the value of the wares. How does Wargames Atlantic handle this?
@Brian Van De Walker That black powder Elf looks great, except maybe for the bayonet.
I seem to recall WGA showed an elf preview sculpt awhile back but it never went into production because of “lack of market interest”... and if I remember correctly it was just before or just after North Star released their plastic Elves. North Star is a lot less talkative about their development than WGA.
@Blutze I tend to find a lot of various sprues on eBay in the US, UK and Germany. I used to rely on one particular guy in the UK for sprues but Brexit made that cost ineffective so now I pretty much just use the German eBay for loose sprues.
I am surprised that there is not a dedicated sprue seller in Germany.
@Grumpy Gnome I buy sprues on ebay too... But for Wargames Atlantic Sprues @Lord Marcus offers individual sprues for sale on his store site.
@Yronimos Whateley
Reference:
This is interesting. I'm reminded a little of this exchange in the "Who Want WW2 Axis Cavalry?" thread:
https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/53782/who-wants-ww2-axis-cavalry
When discussing the potential popularity/sales of historical feudal Japanese sets versus fantasy samurai hobgoblin....... Sadly I'm inclined to think the hobgoblins will outperform the historical Japanese. I say that because from my observations anything that can be shoehorned into Age of Sigmar or the upcoming Old World Fantasy Battle Redux has an audience approximately 250,000% bigger than historical games. (I made that percentage up obviously. But I bet it is a factor of thousands.)
It's also worth mentioning that Warlord has some plastic Samurai and there is this set(s) coming:
So the 28mm plastic "Samurai" space is filling up. Not that I have any issues with so called "redundancy." (Some get really worked up about it around here.) I'm sure a WGA kit would offer some options the others wouldn't. Flexibility and choice are near always a good thing.
@Yronimos Whateley
Reference:
So close, the answer is Mongolian ;)
Hear me out.
The Hobgoblin Khanate is well established in lore:
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Hobgoblin
And there are big hints that GW is going to pay more attention to that part of the world when the release Return of the Old World.
So, 1. Great timing on the Warring States Release from WGA.
2. The pseudo Mongolian Hobgoblins who constantly war with Cathay would probably be well received too.
@William Redford
I really like sallet helmet.
Why? They look really cool.
I think they possibly look coolest without the bevor. Which combines poor visibility with half the protection ;), but looks baller. Certainly a distinctive look for a fantasy troop type.
Would include a handful of black powder pistols. Let the end user decide the tech level of his guys.
Oh, and a flamberg sword or two.
@JTam The Fireforge Northmen have Sallet helmets... Open faced. I really like then as well. And these guys fit well size wise with the conquistadors. Having an upgrade sprue with some of these and matchlock or wheel lock pistols would be great.
@Yronimos Whateley
So more like Aly Morrison's C36 Hobgobelins mixing various elements from Far-eastern countries -Mongolia and Cathay?
@William Redford Thanks!
Hmm. The only real flaw I see with a fantasy upgrade sprue is that you can get the same effect simply by kitbashing spares from different historicals, plus the existing plastic fantasy kits with loads of accessories from Northstar and Fireforge. Science fiction cries out for generic and interesting tech gear - I really don't have much use for a sprue of swords, bows, crossbows, polearms etc.
Depends. If it is really just crossbows and halberds, it may indeed not be worth the effort. But even just swords tend to be rare in historical kits (WGA conqs are a welcome exception here), and most of the stuff we've discussed - on my list, all but two entries - is rather out there and very unlikely to show up in a serious historical kit from Warlord Games or Perry. The Frostgrave-specific kits are a start, but AFAIK they don't go nearly as far.
More importantly though, I don't know if I agree with the argument that you can just "get another box". I got my WGA goblins and irish as enemies for D&D. That means I needed 10-15 dudes each, maybe 20, not a full 30 or an army of 150. So I'm certainly not gonna get another box with 24 of the same creature from another manufacturer just for those, say, five arms with different shields. A sprue with those five arms plus stuff I could bash into other groups though? Yeah, gimma dat.
A box of fantasy accessories is £15 from NorthStar. Your choice of two kinds of Wizard stuff or one of Non-Wizard stuff.
Plus you get 8 male or 8 female Wizards or 10 non-Wizards as a bonus.
This area is already covered.
Wings ("angel" and "dragon"), tails (cat, "demon")
I'd go for a small set of 'fantasy scale' weapon arms. Basically, bigger swords and what have you. I would also like to see female options for say, the conquistadors or maybe a female landsknecht style mercenary sprue, if not a whole box.
@Davey C. I agree. From a fantasy standpoint, the conquistadors are great. The only thing they lack is female options. Having a sprue with female heads in the various helmets and unhelmeted would be great but if they added something like female torsos that you could convert the male conquistadors with a knife and a torso swap... even better. A conquistador character kit, with fancier armor, some capes, some pistols, etc... would be good too. You could make generals, or wizards or RPG characters. The set would have broad appeal. I know @Hudson Adams asked if people would buy single character packs. But a set of 10 "nobles" could have broad appeal with wargamers, historical players and rpg'ers.
as an example. I got a sprue of the stargrave female crew (crew 2).
so here is a "female" conquistador.
I think having female historical-fiction/fantasy kits with a similar set up as Cannon Fodder 2 would be good. Females with arms compatible with their male counterparts is a cool concept.
Having rare and experimental weapons for their time periods, or just straight up magic weapons would make them stand out as their own distinct unit. And since Wargames Atlantic always has high bit count, we all know the kits would be decent value even if your not into female troops.
@William Redford that reminds me! I shamelessly ripped off one the models from your conquistador thread.
@Davey C. Looks really good. :)
A faerie court would be cool. with enough sprues you could make an army of just faeries. 1cm... I kind of want them a bit bigger for painting/converting so if they were half the size of WA haflings, or 1/3 the size that would be perfect. So actually, 1 cm probably is perfect. I kind of want a Faerie court now....
Animal companions are always good. And I love the rats and cats on the Frostgrave wizards sprues. Spiders are good. A cat sized spider would make a great addition. You could use it as a familiar, or if you get enough sprues you could put several on a base and make some swarms.
@Rondaros A'terac Great suggestions!
Off the top of my head theres afew things Id love to see on an accessory sprue. Mostly things I cant find elsewhere or in insuficcient numbers/quality.
Dogs (and other animals)
Left hands with medieval weaponry (and accompanying empty right hands)
"Grey Alien" heads.
And have to second the above suggestion of Faeries! If it existed Id own a mighty army of Tinkerbellians just as fast as you could ship it to me :D
@Carsten Ohlsson I wonder if there will be any dogs in the farm animal set. I hope there is.
so far we have or will have:
the wolfhound in the Irish set
the German shepherd in the upcoming German sentries set
the mastiff in the conquistador cavalry set.
if we got a border collie in the farm animals set to herd some sheep thst would be great.
what kind of dogs would you like to see on a fantasy sprue? I wouldn't mind some Doberman or Rottweilers.
@William Redford In an ideal world I would love a sprue that contained:
Dobermans, Rottweilers, St Bernards, Pittbulls, Labradors, Mastiffs, Poodles, Great Danes, Bloodhounds, etc.
Really anything thats big enough to scare a mailman.
Im one of those "more warbands/armies than common sense" people I could very easily spread out 50+ assorted canines amongst my projects. From the dark ages through post apoc everyone needs more attack dogs :D
@Carsten Ohlsson "Really anything thats big enough to scare a mailman." 😅
For swarms instead of minis could be mini rollers or stamps for green stuff.
For different option models could be multi race faction box instead of current one race in box, for example Pirates, Circle of Wizards, City Guards, Thieves Den.
Also sprue could be for get girls to the hobby/order small present for daughter/girlfriend/wife with Epic Princess or Magical Girls teams.
