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New Friday Poll up - Ultra Moderns/Near Future - win prizes!

  • Hudson Adams

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/ultra-moderns-near-future-survey

    Time to Make the Plastic!

  • William Redford

    Rogue AI robots? Yeah, that sounds awesome. 

  • AV

    A couple of things on the proposals. The French Foreign Legion is equipped like the rest of the French Armée de Terre. Of course the whole french army is in a state of flux (with until recently new equipment coming in very limited quantities), but the set should be Contemporary French Army. I knw often some wargamers and wargaming sites claim it is a different organization, but is not... same for the Royal Marines. They have no separate procurement chain from the rest of the British Army. Thus Royal Marines are basically the same in rquipment and combat uniform. 

  • Benjamin Hayward

    I don't know what the market is like for accurate moderns; is there high demand? low demand? I don't know.  I based my answers on what I would actually purchase, and it's all pretty much "generic moderns/near-future" and cyberpunk stuff that I can use in sci-fi gaming.

    About as close as I would get to a "realistic" realistic setting for gaming is a Stalker-type setting, and "generic" will be just fine for that.  I ordered some modern-ish stuff from Anvil and, while I got what I wanted, I wouldn't have minded a lower price, that's for sure.

    That, and good, "practical" female alternatives and/or multi-kits are sorely needed across the board - fantasy and sci-fi; chicks who look like they showed up to fight, not strike sexy poses.  Cheesecake is fine, but it's not what I buy.  For some models  (i.e. armored-up soldiers, soldiers in bulky clothing, etc) simple alternative head options would work fine.  Not sure what the market will bear for this, but I'd buy them.

  • AV

    @Benjamin Hayward that is the crux of the matter. Historical players like me look at accurate miniatures of real world forces, sci-fi players like you like different things. And of course people will answer based on their preferences. 

    I would say that judging from Empress miniatures flagship ultra modern range  there is a market there and a good one.  It is one of the reaosn why I strogly hope these polls wouldbe divided in relevant categories rather than just putting together apples and oranges.  Also these polls often represents a skewered slice of the purchasing community. 

  • Yronimos Whateley

    I think the poll was loaded with great ideas - it was difficult for me not to just check almost everything straight down!

    I'm primarily a sci-fi/fantasy gamer, but all of the "historical" options - PLA, SAS, Marines, Polish, Bundeswehr, Swat, Generic Police, African Militia, Afghan Insurgents, etc. - sounded solid and interesting to me.  I left most unchecked, leaving that to the historical gamers to choose their favorites from, but for my part, I'd be happy to see any/all of those!

    I might have checked all the sci-fi/fantasy options, but really, I didn't see any options in the poll that would cause me to flip the table!

    I actually don't mind the cheesecake/fantasy women-in-uniform thing myself, but something a little more realistic is always welcome as well.  The female Eisenkern and Cannon Fodder II look great to me, without looking sleazy at all.  I think WGA can be trusted to do fantasy and sci-fi women tastefully - great work to WGA's concept artists, producers, and sculptors! :)

     

    I don't know what a Meal Team Six is, but just the name made my day :D 

     

  • William Redford

    @Yronimos Whateley I had too look it up... its exactly what you think.

  • Yronimos Whateley

    Ah!  At last:  a Death Fields faction that looks like me!  :D 

  • Benjamin Hayward

    @Arrigo Velicogna Right on.  I checked off my choices, but I don't have much of of an opinion on the accurate stuff; a lot of the stuff JTam, GG, and others discuss here in the forum flies straight over my head!  I would probably order some, but I wouldn't be able to tell you which one was which based on their gear or anything.

    @Yronimos Whateley I dig it. The sexy stuff doesn't bug me, it's just not what I'm looking for.  My wife is interested in playing Five Leagues from the Borderlands and the only female fantasy kits I can find are the Frostgrave soldiers and wizards.  Those are both great kits, and there are a lot of great female minis out there, but we all know building and customizing your minis is hella fun, and the more the merrier (so long as the demand can make the risk worthwhile to the manufacturers).

    I grabbed both the Eisenkern kits, and the Panzerjaegers are awesome, and I'm looking forward to snagging both Cannon Fodder kits, as I want male and female good guys and bad guys; I'm an equal-opportunity killer!

  • Steven StGeorges

    Robots.. robots and robots are my first choice, then I checked everything related to Scifi and ... Polish Army -why the hell did I pick that one... 😬

  • Yronimos Whateley

    @Benjamin Hayward  Exactly!   The cheesecake can be fun for me, and fantasy/sci-fi literature has a long and fine tradition of it that I'd much rather uphold than lose, but there's plenty of it out, and these days i game with family and want to encourage more family-friendly miniatures - there are great minis and wargaming kits out thee, but ideas like the female "operators"/mercs from the poll almost always get my vote :)

     

    As do robots - I think the Rogue Robots and Mule/Big-Dog Robots were the first and second optons I checked.  Not only are robots just plain cool in sci-fi, but we're also seeing an age where drones and robots of all sorts are no longer science fiction, but a vital part of a modern first-world military, from AI computers behind the lines and the robot factory machines that have been building weapons and vehicles for years now, to surveillance and attack drones and smart weapons that have proven themselves to be some of the most successful new weapons of war, to the robots currently used for defusing bombs and mines, to designs and prototypes for robot rescue workers to retrieve wounded soldiers from dangerous areas, to remote weapon turrets and platforms.  Robots like the Terminators are a great faction for sci-fi wargaming, while robots of every shape and size look like they are about to become a huge part of modern and near-future warfare!  (I laughed at the vacuum robot used as an illustration by @William Redford above, until I realized the vacuum robot I'd bought a few years ago had shifted from an exciting novelty for my home, to something that had become so normal that I step over it while it works without really noticing anymore.  I imagine the military of the near future might end up being much the same way, with simple, unglamorous robots doing grunt work for soldiers that barely notice the robots are there....)

     

    Every time I reopen that poll, I see something new that I didn't notice before!  I didn't remember seeing the Cartel or Mafia/Yakuza options until just now when reminding myself what alien options were on the poll....

  • BV

    @William Redford Ah, Rogue Roomba:

  • William Ings

    There are a lot of good ideas in this poll. I'm a fan of historical-fantasy and near future sci-fi.

    Most companies put so much effort into developing fantasy and sci-fi setting, just for fans to cling to what makes them look historic. Why not skip most of that work and go for somthing like Predator 2, cops vs gangsters, with a skull hunting alien in the back drop.

  • BV

    @Benjamin Hayward I have heard it both ways on the demand for real vs. strange real vs. Near SciFi, there where some good arguements for real modern (60's to present) of  course the guy making them was a co writer for force on force, so 😆.

    Personal thought on it is "modern anything without a real war/army attached" should be veiwed as filling in for modern, Post Apoc, Zombie Outbreak, and Cyberpunk (oh, and maybe urban fantasy). Ie they coud be used for realish games like "Twilight 2000" or Force on Force.  But it can also work for your personal "more fantastic" stargrunt setting which you based on a crazy tatical DS game:

    Or that homebrew you have based on a Playstation game you played:

     

    Meanwhile, "modern with a real war attached" should be veiwed as purely historical (cause not button counting real world modern conflicts is hard). I am not really sure real conflicts would be a good starting point or even which one as that seems to jump around and most of the polls seemed sus (falklands war beating Veitnam, I mean if it where the Bush Wars or the Soviet Afgahn war I would not only understand but back that vote, but the Falkland war was more of a limited  naval air enegagment as opposed to a infantry ground war).

     

     

  • JTam

    @Brian Van De Walker 

    What?

    I imagine these men would disagree:

    That was a hard fight.

     

  • JTam

    I'm pretty live and let live kind of guy.  

    I see plenty of kits and kit ideas that I'm not interested in and or don't like.  And I move on and don't comment because doubtless this is someone else's dream kit or area of interest.  It is OK to like things I don't like.

    But "Terrified Civilians - No weapons, running away, injured" is some morally reprehensible sh*t.

  • Grumpy Gnome

    I think models of civilians in a combat zone, behaving as civilians commonly do... as victims... is a potentially contentious set but it depends a lot on how it is used. It is the same risk of any miniatures really. We all have our limits. 

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • BS Kitbasher

    I mostly clicked on the gangsters and insurgents.   A modern military kit would be great, but only really useful for building modern or near-future military/mercenary minis.  Insurgents and guys in suits tend to be wearing clothes that can be useful in far more situations; for example I've used the Afghan minis to convert fantasy minis, Sci Fi minis, historical-ish minis, sci-fantasy minis, and so on.  Their clothing isn't as specific to one purpose and time period, so I have more use for them, so I buy more of them.

     

    I also voted for every robot option, especially non-humanoid practical robots.

  • CT

    Is the poll still up because I can't acess it.

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  • BS Kitbasher

    I had to log into Google, and it took me to a Google docs version of it.

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  • BS Kitbasher

    @JTam  I mostly agree with you, especially in the context of modern conflicts.  There will always be gamers who want to "add flavor" to their "extremely accurate" Waffen SS army, and I'm sure we'll see a historical minis version of that infamous IG-with-Eldar-captive diorama within a year.  But...  uh, hmmm.

     

     

    I'd really like minis in civilian clothes, and maybe some running poses for variety.  And progressively more injured badasses  were a staple of action movies for a long time.  So, I'm conflicted.

  • lauregami

    @BS Kitbasher I think you could definitely make a "civilian" kit - WA already has the French partisans and such along those lines already - without the "terrified" part. Battle scars/damage can be painted or bashed on for the badass action heroes. I'm not against more "civilian clothed" options, and it looks like we're getting them, too - but I don't think the "terrified civilians" kit as described is a good idea at all.

    While I tend to be uncomfortable with the thought of "modern conflict" minis because I feel like I'm exploiting people who are dying today, I recognize that people are able to compartmentalize their toys from the horrors of actual modern war in a way that I don't. But a "terrified civilians" box is a box of war crimes, straight up, and there's no way to compartmentalize that. It shouldn't happen, it shouldn't be a source of profit.

    Not trying to grill or "own" WA or even criticize them for spitballing amongst dozens of entries, many of them consumer suggestions - but I want to say my piece, and I agree that this particular idea isn't a good one.

    lonely rivers flow to the open arms of the sea

  • William Ings

    I don't see anything wrong with unarmed survivors in say... a zombie game or alien invasion.

    I get people are touchy about it the closer we get to modern time. But we see them in film, so why not tabletop? Are the Marvel movies evil? There are tons of unarmed civilians running around in the background, what about Battle for Los Angeles?

    Depicting a thing is not the same as doing said thing.

  • Benjamin Hayward

    I personally wouldn't mind civilians, but I don't know how well an entire box would sell. For me, they'd be objectives: captives that need rescuing, or I could run missions akin to the "terror" missions in XCOM/XCOM 2, where the civilians are scattered around the battlefield and your job is to rescue as many as possible while the enemy is trying to kill them.  XCOM 2's expansion bumped it up by arming the civilians so they weren't just sitting ducks.  Great games even if the RNG is BS at times...

    Fire Forge has the Folk Rabble box that looks pretty cool; I'll likely snag that one at some point.  They'd also be great for a "Seven Samurai/Army of Darkness" style mission where your group has to quickly fortify a town and train the locals to fight off the bandits/Deadites.

    But for any application I can think of using civilians for, I can't see needing more than 10 at the very most.

  • MS

    instead of having multiple boxes for Modern Tier 1 Operators, why not have a single box with multiple options for heads / arms / weapons but leave torsos generic, can always add options into the box to add to the torsos. This would allow 1 box to build SWAT / SAS / PMC Operators / SEALS. One box with enough options to make them all one one force IE SWAT or a mix or everything. SAS may need specific weapons on the sprue for them to use. This would allow probably 24 minis with enough options to satisfy a chunk of that list. Just my two cents <3

  • AV

    @Michael Scott  I am afraid Wargames Factory tried, and Warlord relased it and it was basically a miss and miss idea. First of all despite the appearance there are differences in kit. Second there are differences in weaponry. Third sadly we are not yet to the level were ultra cusotmization of single miniatures really work. I know that both digitical sculpting and manufacturing are making massive progress every semester, but from my experience in the end you still have to accept several compromise on the sculpts.  Fourth... you end up with plenty of unused items that while may come handy again in some case, for other people willbe just wasted sprue space and also wasted money.  The is based on my experience. 

    I have also to agree with Jtam on the Falklands. Having spoken with Julian Thompson severa times that war was hard fought also on the ground. And to be honest, Gripping Beast has a range, and Empress is about to launch it. Plus... 3rd Commando Brigade is usefulo also for Cold War Gone Hot in Denmark and/or Norway. 

  • CT

    @BS Kitbasher Link please since I can't access it from either Microsoft Edge or Firefox.

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  • CT

    @Benjamin Hayward I'd love a civillian box for modern, fantasy, and sci-fi, along with post apopcalypse.

  • Blutze

    Not sure if this is a fantasy perspective or a DM perspective, but I didn't have an immediately negative reaction to scared/fleeing civilians. Dark elves slaughtering recently captured slaves to deny enemy horse cavalry a field of good hard ground with bloody corpses (there was a story about that tactic in the 6th edition army book, but never any rules or minis for it) is evil, but if I put that on the table it is not representative of any real-life atrocity that I am trying to reenact in detail; and if my players step out of the door to see cityfolk running down the streets, the focus is on the players being the heroes who will soon vanquish the tarrasque/repel the orcs/capture the escaped behir.

    The implication of these being modern atrocity victims didn't really click with me until I read JTam's comment though. My mind first went to fantasy things, and when I remembered that the survey was about modern topics I stopped thinking about it because anything modern or modern+ is really not something I ever see myself doing with miniatures.

    Accordingly, I went with "other - not interested at all" on the survey. Wouldn't barge into the scifi or modern subforums and tell people their interests are dumb or anything, but I figured the survey medium would be better able to show relative numbers, in case I'm really the only one who doesn't care.

  • BS Kitbasher

    @Charles Tottington 

     

    link to the Google doc?  Here:

    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeip3MrzjJPjJRYdxEGFy4MIcY7cbNM9wJ6-cqOOQhuIRWz4g/viewform?fbzx=-7964966999195317727&pli=1

  • BV

    @lauregami Thats is part of the reason why I voted Yakuza and skipped all the "civilians", but mostly I figured having a cellphone pose arm and a couple of free hand arms and your done with unarmed civilians for modern as far as normal gaming needs go, (the only "need a bunch of them" thing I have found was the crowd battlefield condition rule from Fist Full full of Kung-Fu, which would more likely be in awe as opposed to terrified).

    On the other hand you can never have to many guns and melee weapons😏.If  WA was doing open open hands though this would likely be a mute point.

     

     

  • CT

    I went with the armed civillians for stuff like partisians and modern styled fraeteris militia. And also power armor and all varieties of alien, I actually voted for a lot of stuff that I forgot the entire list.

  • John Wilson

    Unarmed civilians made me think of operation last train and similar where the games are focused on saving civilians from aliens (or zombies, mythical creatures etc). I never made any connection to modern atrocities, you would have to make them more generic civilian I suppose to avoid this.

  • GM

    @JTam Gota think that the quote is more akin to a film or book. The civilians running from the zombies or aliens and is a way of simplifing the fighting man, and the non combatant. I actually want a lot of these Unarmed figures. If Falling Skies occured this side of the pond, the largest part of the population for real as no weapons. Therefore as portrayed in"FS" the "Militia" ,now a real army has the hard task of carrying the civilians, and trying to train some, whilst other cook, look after Kids, and forage. Some may or may not use them incorrectly in games but I`m convinced to most they are as John says above a night mare to aid, and feed. Puting Hope and Humanity into gaming . Cheers my friend I wish you were this side of the pond, the games we would have eh? . Just think YOU , Grump, John, Frank, and Yronimus oh the late, late nights. Cyber Pints all round. Heres to you my on screen friends "To the Journey"   

  • GM

    Whilst still having a little time before I cook tonights meal, Civilians in whole would be nice if the set had, Male, Female, Children, in all types of poses, even sitting down ( car drivers). The people of the world getting on with their lives before, and after, whatever our imaginations put them through all in plastic by Wargames Atlantic..  Night all, Iv`e animals to feed and us "Bye", Food and "Strangerthings" beckon. 

  • Benjamin Hayward

    Drones would also be a great addition to these kits.  Both flying and ground varieties would be very much welcome!

  • Red Bee

    I'd really love some Cyber Punk options and Police options. I really want to kit bash a cybernetic-poloce force for Death Fields and name them Coppers.

  • BV

    @Geoff Maybury 

    Ha, after the first day,  the survivoirs would likely get weapons real quick (of course a lot them would be "dated", melee or likely explode in their faces🤣):

    Also it sounds like you want a diorama set for trains, since that would have to be static pose if we are talking 1 sprue.  Again a cellphone holding pose hand and one set of free hands in any armed non-uniformed plainclothes set (Yakuza, etc.) is all that’s really needed to make unarmed civilians for modern gaming, maybe a breifcase pose that is in the opposite hand to the cellphone.

    @Red Bee To be honest I think they should just include cyberpunk head options in any of the "Genric fiction Modern" kits like "modern operaters", "SWAT" and if they must do them "modern Civilians anything" (infact they should go heavy on that one so we stop hearing "unarmed civilian" requests for Scifi🤣).  Heck I think they should put in cyberpunk head parts in the "yakuza" and the Japanese SAT team sets I keep suggesting, because Ghost in the Shell.🤣

     

    Of course I also think they should include parts to make a modern Necromancers (yes as in the fantasy magic user) if they do Zombies for modern (magic make more sense than all this "COVID outbreak makes zeds" bad writing Hollywood keeps turning out on and should be far more fun game wise).

    @Yronimos Whateley  Yeah, so many weird options a good number of which didn't seem like they where for modern so much as deathfields (did they get a hold of the molding/IP rights to Defiance Games Alien Wars or something?😆).  The  "Lizard Alien Invaders" struck me as odd since we already had  lizard men armed with what looks like this already:

    I didn't vote for it or any of the alien options since  Xenos with blasters can scale with anything (same deal with bugs) and the Shadowkesh once done would be my go to for modern realistic space invaders.  Though not voting for the space lizards may have been a mistake if the set was going to be fully compatable with the other current lizard men set and had more melee weapons to it😆(love that set💯).

  • Yronimos Whateley

    Screaming helpless civilians?  I didn't vote for them, but promoting and celebrating atrocities is not really the first place my mind goes.  Maybe it's a generational or cultural thing, but I think of heroic characters rescuing or protecting innocent people in stories where "bad guys" - martians, zombies, terrorists, orcs, or whatever - capture princesses, take hostages, or have recipes for How to Serve Man.

    I've seen othe discussions this weekend that go in similar directions with "racist" orcs, or being "triggered" by the idea of police or SWAT or soldier minis because Police States, and so on.

    I think we've all seen That One Guy in our time of gaming:  That One Guy who confides that, in Real Life, he really is an elf, vampire, or CIA agent... or, That One Guy who you start to notice spending a little too much time and detail talking about torture or whatever.

    The point being, that That One Guy isn't very good at keeping his malfunction a secret:  the people who suggested terrified, fleeing civilians probably don't have a secret ulterior motive of tricking everyone into promoting, practicing, or celebrating war crimes and genocides.

    With that in mind, we probably don't need to jump from zero to "racist, sexist, homophobic, fascist" at the first sign of something that seems strange, and it's probably safe to ask:

    Did any of you vote for "terrified, fleeing civilian casualties" for any reason other than imagining a scenario involving rescuing innocent people, or building some sort of refugee diorama?  What else would you use them for, and what's up with that diorama, anyway?

    If the answer starts out something like "well, you see, in Real Life I am actually a 2000 year old elven vampire, as well as a blackbelt ninja CIA agent, and the best way to torture innocent people is...", then maybe we've got an issue with the gamer, rather than the game.

    Otherwise, it's just a matter of whether enough people think they need civilian casualties for that diorama they've been planning - and modern partisans just won't do - to justify the niche product.

    For my money, a more generic civilian kit is probably more likely to hit a "sweet spot" for more projects than the more specific fleeing unarmed civilians:  cultists, henchmen, freedom-fighters, vulnerable targets to escort to safety, undercover agents, criminals, hostages, reluctant heroes, tavern brawlers, alien pod-people in disguise, vigilantes, terrorists., etc.  But, maybe there are more games that need fleeing, scared, injured, and unarmed civilian pawns than I suspect.

  • M

    i mostly picked the 'third world' forces, with a few near future things i thought would sell well.

    pretty much every moderns ruleset i've heard of in 28mm has focused on peacekeeping ops, anti-terrorism, and other assymetrical conflicts. where you have a small force of well equipped and trained troops, often special forces of some variety, facing a larger groups of less well equipped forces spread out across the map.

    28mm special forces are largely already well served by the metal figures on the market, but trying to fill out the larger force of the irregualrls.guerillas/etc is harder to do with metal figures due to the cost. having plastic optiosn for these would go over well i think. those same figures would also lend themselves well to creating forces (both player and encounter) for games like Zona Alfa/Kontraband, Stargrave, etc.

  • Ben Zed

    @Yronimos Whateley 

    there is no need to attack people for what they think about one of the options in the poll. There are plenty of reasons why someone may find "Terrified Civilians (no weapons, running away, injured, etc)'' objectionable. While I have no interest in that set, it did not seem that objectionable to me, but the whole subject of miniatures depicting real life ongoing things is going to hit different people differently. There definitely are times that miniature companies have done less than tasteful things, such as use real life footage of war crimes to advertise their products. It's not hard to see how when someone sees the words “Terrified Civilians” that they think of real world examples.

    Also “triggered” is not being upset or objecting to something. It is in relation to PTSD. A very real condition that a lot of real world soldiers develop, in addition to all sorts of people put in traumatic places. When a veteran gets flashbacks when they hear fireworks, that is someone being triggered.

    Not sure what your “That One Guy” has to do with any of this. While it may not always be fun when real world issues come up in fiction, it's unavoidable, and maybe you should try and see from their point of view. Implying that people who object to something are the problem, and that their object is akin to them thinking they are “2000 year old elven vampire” is not constructive. 

  • Yronimos Whateley

    @Brian Van De Walker - I gotta agree completely that including a handful of cyberpunk heads in any modern/near-future kit, from Yakuza to operators to civilian anything would surely satisfy a LOT of that Shadowrun/Cyberpunk gaming niche - at least, for me, and I think I might have been one of the first to suggest Cyberpunk kits.  After all, unless someone's looking for retro-futuristic '80s New Romantic, hair metal, punk rock, techno, and hardboiled noir detective costumes to go with the crazy hairdos and shades, the heads along will suggest the cyberpunk aesthetic on generic civilian, modern gangster, and paramilitary bodies!  Most of the rest can be filled out with pulp gangsters (which seems to have been teased as an upcoming kit) and the existing French Partisans.

    As mentioned before, I'm not sure I entirely get the specifically "unarmed civilian" suggestions, but civilian kits that include that option in addition to weaponry - improvised or otherwise - and gadgets that can be kitbashed onto military and paramilitary kits (flashlights, cell phones, computer decks, scanners, etc.) do help fill out specialist character roles like medics, saboteurs, hackers, safecrackers, drone operators, and the like, and go a really long way in role-playing games with fantasy and sci-fi elements (Call of Cthulhu, World of Darkness, and that sort of thing.) 

    That sort of thing might not be so big a deal for most historical wargaming purposes, but shines in post-Star Trek sci-fi and games that borrow from it, like Stargrave and Starfinder:  Stargrave's rules in particular assume that members of the crew are going to be spending as much time yelling "Damn it, Jim, i'm a doctor, not a miracle worker!" or scanning alien computers for data, as they are shooting stuff, and with newer wargames like 0200 Hours similarly playing on a stealthy saboteurs-and-spycraft kind of military subgenre, things like triggers for explosives, cameras, lockpicks, and the like are almost as interesting and useful as guns!

    Improvised weapons bits like zip-guns (I'm digging the photos of those!), golf clubs, chain saws, molotovs, home-made crossbows, or whatever only add to the possibilities - maybe these civilians are partisan resistance fighters against the corporate police?  Maybe they're zombie hunters?  Maybe they're scavengers in a post-apocalyptic wasteland?  That stuff fits all of those concepts and more!  The more genres/subgenres that can be covered, the merrier!

     

    I had exactly the same train of thought about the lizard-aliens:  "Wait, didn't WGA already do that?  No need to check it again...."  But then, a "Classic Fantasy Lizard Men 2" set with ray guns, melee weapons, and sci-fi costumes, fully compatible with the first Lizard Men, I can fully get behind!  A great kit, but so short on features in some tantalizing "what could have been" ways, if WGA had only had more room to work with!

    I sometimes see peoplesay that they don't want options because of the wasted bits, but I think I'm just the opposite - I like having the extra bits, even if I don't have an immediate use for them!  (But the extras only count if they represent a real choice - an elf with a choice of three slightly different styles of elfy swords and shields is far less interesting than an elf with a choice of an elfy sword and shield, a blaster, a crystal skull, a clockwork greeble, a cowboy six-gun, and an assault rifle....)  The three very different styles of guns and the gas-mask option for WGA's lizard men was excellent - I love the way they represent distinct genres!  I just wish the melee weapon selection and accessories had more room to breathe....

  • Yronimos Whateley

    @Ben Zed - I'm not attacking anyone in this thread, unless there really IS someone here who is asking for terrified victims for some sort of politically-incorrect awfulness.

    I think that concern might be overblown - we might have all met someone with real problems in our time gaming, but it's the tiniest minority, and I don't think we should be afraid to consider a request out of the fear that someone might do something awful with it, because, chances are, that's not why it was requested, and not how it's likely to be used.

    In other words, a "terrified victims" kit is not my "thing", and I'm not sure I entirely understand it, but I am sure it was a perfectly innocent and well-meanin request, and it's probably safe to ask the people who want that specific kit what they want with it - not out of suspicion, but because the answer is probably surprising, and maybe useful for understanding some different styles of gaming.  I almost always find the answers surprising.

    If there really IS someone out there who simply wants to, as someone else pondered:

    "add flavor" to their "extremely accurate" Waffen SS army, and I'm sure we'll see a historical minis version of that infamous IG-with-Eldar-captive diorama within a year....

    ...then, well, the ghoul who wants "extremely acccurate" Waffen SS scenes can consider me to be insulting, but I'm not even trying to insult them, and I'm sure they've heard worse than being called a "ghoul" or "That One Guy". 

    I'm just not going to denounce their request, nor am I going to choose to invite them to my gaming.  Hopefully, it's a phase they'll grow out of.

    EDIT:  I should stress here that I've NEVER seen such a diorama in my decades of gaming, so I cannot fairly comment on them.  A "highly accurate" Waffen SS diorama sounds ghoulish to me.  Then again, this is art:

    ...and in that case, I get it:  if that's the angle the diorama-maker is coming from, maybe "ghoul" should be taken not as an insult, but a compliment! 

    Anyway, I would rather see an awful diorama any day, than lose opportunities for great gaming, storytelling, or art in the name of avoiding the remote chance that someone might do something awful.  I have more faith in my fellow hobbyists than that!

     

    The question is genuine and still open:  if someone out there does want/need to specifically model terrified, helpless, fleeing victims and gneric civilians won't work, and the plan is not for objectives for a routine rescue, defend, or escort mission, then what are these victims used for?  Because my imagination runs short after that....

  • William Redford

    @Geoff Maybury mentioned this under the poll in the News page, but I think its a great Idea. One of teh things that made the Conquistadors popular was that they were proposed with an antagonist. While the Aztecs may not be as popular as the Conquistadors, the two sets definitely compliment each other. 

    So, with that line of thought, how about 2 sets that are against each other. Like robots vs resistance, or men in suits vs aliens? What rival sets would you want?

  • GM

    @William Redford Well heres my 2 pence worth I`d like Survivalists Vs realistic Aliens, Falling Skies etc . Plus the ringer 3rd set, civilians, for the purposes of, one civilisations last treachers, doctors, mechanic etc with their kids, to be protected by the Survivalists, and hunted by the Aliens for slaves etc.  Of course the Aliens would hunt the Survivalists but an armed person is lible to fire back. Eventually if things go wellfor Wargames Atlantic the more theyed do the more I`d bye, the whole dam list was so good and they all cross over. One guy sugested a Trauma Doctors set great for Zombies, or any Game. Meal Team 6 was my only dud, and I can see the fun in the unfit and slightly over weight playing piece.

  • John Wilson

    Thinking about it, assuming there are going to be suitable modern historical sets you could do a lot with just a post apocalyptic upgrade (preferably the full size) sprue with alternative heads, gasmasks and weapons. Also similar for Cyberpunk with alternative heads, cyber limbs and weapons (throw in a cyberdeck). You could also use the Cannon Fodder as the basis of biosuited troops/scientists with additional hooded heads, alternative modern weapons and medical/scientific equipment.

     

     

     

     

  • GM

    @John Wilson Like your style, but please not cannon fodder I`m not to keen. I`d been wanting to tickle your old grey cells.  Over here we`ve been hearing rumors of a "Last of us", TV series, and a game (Book) not electric. My favorite mushroom Men and Animals (love a "ZOO" set ) I trying to game any sparks of wisdom my friend. 

  • John Wilson

    @Geoff Maybury I say the Cannon Fodder since they are the easiest to turn into biosuited figures with a few additions (changes), although a purpose designed figure would be better. A overhanging hood and chest equipment/gear would remove the main zip complaint.

    Last of us wise, I wince whenever I hear they are turning something into a TV series at this point. It will be interesting to see it make the transition into other genres. 

  • CT

    @John Wilson I have my hesitations given how they did the Halo TV show. Man am I glad that show is not considered canon.

  • CT

    @Yronimos Whateley Yeah terrified civillians only make sense for me if you were trying to do a diorama like an alien invasion or use them as objective pieces.

    Speaking of which, we REALLY need more alien stuff, like classic alien invaders with their ufos and warmachines. I know Crooked Dice Gaming has some rubber forehead alien invaders along with some more creative ones.

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