Alternative heads for conversions


  • So, having just recieved my box of foot knights, I have to say I'm very impressed! Crisp mail, believeable yet dynamic poses: these are a far cry from some of the older plastics that have been around for a while.

    While I might paint up a couple of minis as period-appropriate knights, much of the box I've bought is fated to become part of my ever growing fantasy collection. Though I like the included heads quite a bit, I'm looking to spruce things up a little. Female knights, other ancestries, etc. are all on the table! 

    In short, I need a more diverse array of heads. Does anyone have any experience with kitbashing to give their knights new heads? Would the heads from WA Digital fit scale-wise with the knights? I'm eyeing up the fantasy rangers files as a potential source of heads. 

    Thanks for any advice!



  • @Rico M What sort of head connector do they have? I have seen, own and even kitbashed the older Fireforge knights myself with tons of diffrent minatures.

    If its the same head connector setup  as the older Fireforge and Gripping Beast plastics (the same WA's WW1 plastics) which it does appear to be, then you can pretty much do alot of headswap kitbashing not just with those two but Warlords Anceint line, Conquest Game's Mounted knights set and I suspect even some Victrix's sets (possibly even thier upcoming fantasy sprue), oh and number of WA's sets and probably most of thier digital products (if its human and it's not for Death Fields, it will likely work fine head wise). 

    I will add not all kitbashs are equal either and great deal is in the eye of the beholder. For example I personally don't think most WW1 helmet headswaps would look right on the chainmail knight bodies presay (plate armor with WW1 helms would be a diffrent story) and think the reverse looks pretty sweet and Sludgy, but you may not agree so remember dry fitting is your friend😉.

    With that in mind, if we are talking general fantasy, from the plastics WA has, I recommend looking at the Late Romans and consider putting the knight heads and arms on the late roman bodies and maybe doing the reverse if you want to go more fantasy, if it just headswaps though I think the Presians, Goths, Irish, and Gangs of Rome sets are good headswap sources, you could also get a hold of some boxer heads, heck I think even the Halflings and Goblins may have compatible heads.

    Outside of WA's plastics (though perhaps not thier Digital library),   if  you want exotic/evil/chaos knights throw in some Greek Hoplite and Celtic warrior heads (Warlord's should work, but Victrix might be a better option). You could also go Nordic and use Gripping beast Viking and Saxon heads or Fireforges Russians and Sweds. You might even be able to use some RGD Faun heads.


  • @Brian Van De Walker The head connections look to be compatible with the old Fireforge stuff, but I do anticipate scale issues. The new knights look pretty slight to my eyes (not a bad thing at all: I'm quite fond of their proportions!), so more heroic fantasy/historical heads will probably make them egg heads!

     

    Though, good call on Victrix: they might actually work rather well! I'll have to dig up some of the Victrix sprees I'm sure I have hidden away somewhere and see where that goes! 


  • The connection is the same that Wargames Atlantic uses for all its historical stuff - a flat connection high up on the neck near/at the base of the skull.  So, pretty much any of WA's historical stuff is compatible with these figures! 

    Just one example of compatible heads would be the pickelhaube-style gas-mask heads from the Death Fields accessory sprues - these would be an odd choice even for a fantasy or Death Fields conversion for these figures, but when you consider that any of the Dark Ages (Goths), Renaissance (Conquistador!), world war figures (French Resistance bare heads and any of the military helms), Imperial Conquest (Boxers and Afghans),  [Correction:  the Accessory Sprue heads are actually ball-and-socket fit like the Cannon Fodder heads!  This style can be trimmed to fit, but it's just a bit extra work....]

    Atlantic Digital figures and bits (Teutonic Knights), ancients (Persians) and the like are compatible with these accessories right out of the box, you've got several possibilities for offbeat fantasy conversions at least. The digital priests and monks sets, for example, might supply you with some great heads (and arms!) for conversions into fantasy clerics and paladins, for example.  By a similar token, the digital classic fantasy culitsts and Cthulhu cultists might suggest some evil clerics.  It also looks like the digital Amazons and female hoplites probably use the same connections and might provide some interesting fantasy options, with the caveat that there isn't anything particularly feminine about the knight bodies (though in reality, it would likely be a bit hard to tell the difference under the weight of the chainmail and tabards!)

    The WA halflings - and probably the goblins - also use this sort of connection, though the proportions of their heads might be a bit round - maybe not so much so that it would be distracting, though, so you might have some non-human options here.  The skulls from WA's skeletons set might also fit with minimal effort, leaving you with optons for undead knights.

    I'm pretty sure the dark age and medieval figures produces by both Victrix and Perry use the same sort of connection, for some historical head options that will no doubt look pretty good.  I don't know if you can still find the 25mm knights made by Proxie Models anymore, but those use the same connection, and would work fine for low-key historical conversions for this sort of project.

    If you don't mind a little work with an Xacto blade, it's not too tough to convert the heads that use the ball-and-socket style connection from kits in the Oathmark and Frostgrave catalogues:  the human and Elf infantry, knights, barbarians, soldiers, and even cultists and wizards could provide some very interesting fantasy options.  The "heroic" proportions of Oathmark, Frostgrave, Stargrave, Warhammer/40K, and Dead Man's Hand gunfighter(!) figures leave them a bit doughy and bulky compared to the more realistic proportions of the Wargames Atlantic knights, but given that you're mostly dealing with helmets in these kits, the effect probalby won't be too weird or obvious at all.  The human kits are pretty obvious choices here with helmets and bare heads being safe bets and soft caps and hats making some interesting alternatives, but for non-human options, I think the elves and probably the undead are going to be the easiest conversions to make (the goblins/orcs look like they use a very different - reverse - ball-and-socket connection that probably wouldn't be too easy to convert!)

    Another option that would require a little knifework would be the Wargames Atlantic alien heads (which use a ball-and-socket style connection, compatible with e.g. the Cannon Fodder), if you want to convert some of these knights into weird monsters; the alien heads from Stargrave plastic kits would be more or less the same, with ball-and-socket style connections that would need some minor conversion work.  Still, you could field a rather distinctive band of weird fantasy creatures with a little creativity and imagination here!

    Heads asisde, one of the easiest conversions you could make for some medieval fighting men would be shield swaps, and Wargames Atlantic has you covered there with a set of hard plastic round Dark Ages shields that would look great with these knights, and a digital set of fantasy shields if you're into 3D printing.  Pretty much any fantasy set from other manufacturers (Oathmark, Frostgrave, Warhammer, Mantic) will probably include some shields that can be used with little conversion work here.  Weapons swaps are also pretty easy to do here, though your mileage may vary on how well the thick, doughy, muscular heroic-style arms will mix-and-match with WA's knights, and how well the exaggerated weapons from heroic sets will mix-and-match in place of more slender historical weapons!

     

    Personally, I think the easiest conversions to make from these options would probalby be:

    • Victrix, Perry, and Proxie Models medieval warrior plastic kits - these kits will probably all mix-and-match just fine with minimal conversion needed!
    • Wargames Atlantic historicals - the historical helmeted and bare heads will generally work fine with the knight bodies in a fantasy context, with those outrageous WWI/WWII German helmets, Conquistador helmets, and Roman and Goth helmets, and any bare heads being obvious choices for a fantasy project!
    • Wargames Atlantic's digital products - the priests, monks, cultists, and Teutonic Knights upgrade kit (made specifically with the knights kit in mind!), and Amazons and Hoplites would likely be brilliant for conversions!  (Look out for the Vlad the Impaler digital set, too!)

     


  • @Rico M Hmm, the older Fireforge knight/sarjent heads should work okay visually than if they seem bigger than WA's (I have actually placed those bad boys on armored Warlord Celts which quite a bit smaller and they look pretty good), but you know dry fit first then decide.


  • @Yronimos Whateley Wow, between you and Brian these are fantastic responses! I had high hopes for the Atlantic digital stuff, since they are: A. Available as small packs (no need to buy sprues that I'm going to clip a single item or two off of) and B. Relatively affordable, even if bought already printed. In fact, the ranger set might be perfect, since it has both male and female heads AND some alternative fantasy races to boot! You're also correct to mention that many women's bodies would essentially look the same as a man's once armor is taken into account. 

    I do have some Perry heads kicking about, though, so perhaps it's time to pilfer those at long last. . .

     


  • @Rico M From my understanding if you are printing it out yourself, the digital stuff can be modified to fit, and if we are just talking WA's fantasy stuff, it should fit.

     


  • Glad I can help a little.  There is one correction to make:  I mis-remembered the Accessory Sprue heads as a flat-fit like the historical figures, but they're actually a ball-and-socket fit like the Cannon Fodder (and like popular sci-fi and fantasy figures for Oathmark, Frostgrave, and at least older Warhammer/40K figures.)

     

    A couple notes for the sake of completeness:

    • I think the typical Wargames Atlantic ball-and-socket and flat-fit connections for heads are some sort of informal industry standards: the ball-and-socket fit seems common to sci-fi and fantasy figures (especially with "heroic"scaling), while the flat-fit seems to be common to historical figures.  Most of the hard-plastic miniatures kits I've seen use one of these two types.
      • flat-fit:  I've seen Wargames Atlantic (historicals), Perry, Victrix, and Proxie Models use this
      • ball-and-socket:  I've seen Wargames Atlantic (sci-fi and fantasy), Oathmark, Frostgrave, Stargrave, Warhammer/40K, Great Escape Games (gunfighters), Warlord (Bolt Action), and sometimes Reaper plastic multi-part figures use this 
    • Heads that include the ball-end of a ball-and-socket fit can be (carefully) trimmed with a hobby knife or maybe a low-powered Dremel-style tool to grind the neck flat behind the jaw to about the base of the skull to fit on a typical Wargames Atlantic flat-fit neck.
    • Flat-fit heads can be mounted on a bit of round sprue "neck" that can then be carefully trimmed and filed round into a socket fit; this can be a little trouble if you're converting more than a couple minis, but for one or two figures it's not a lot of work.  (Wargames Atlantic's sprue seems to work well enough for this purpose - it's not a bad idea to keep the empty sprues around after using up the bits for use in conversion projects!  I've also used bits of sprue to craft peg-legs, disk-shaped gas mask filter cartridges, gun barrels, bits of scenery like pipes or furniture, and more; see this YouTube video for an old modeler's sprue antenna trick.)
    • Flat-fit heads with gas-masks at least can be mounted directly onto the rounded necks used by some "reverse" ball-and-socket figures, and it looks just fine - I'm thinking specifically of Oathmark goblins here (and I think I've seen some ghouls and gnolls that use this uncommon "reverse ball-and-socket" fit; I just kit-bashed a couple frames of Oathmark goblins against the heads and arms from a Wargames Atlantic WWI/WWII Russians kit, and it was a rather quick and enjoyable conversion with no special fitting required!
    • There's at least one unusual large ball-and-socket fit used by Iron Core figures and maybe some Warhammer/40K figures (I'm sure I've seen some Chaos Knight heads that use one of these weird ball-and-socket fits!)  This ball-and-socket fit is incompatible with the more usual style fits, without some special trimming and fitting to get it to work.
    • I have seen a few odd kits that use a slightly different flat-fit from Wargames Atlantic's, with a bit more neck attached to the head.  This style fit is incompatible with the more usual flat fit, resulting in either a freakishly long or laughably short neck depending on which way you bash the combination.  I recommend a little special fitting if you happen to encounter this fit (I think the "Project Z" zombie survivors and army figures use this fit, there could be others!)
    • Skeleton kits look like they frequently use something weird in one way or another for both the head and arm fits, I guess because of the delicae joints:  reverse ball-and-socket fith for skulls onto spines seem to be normal, but I'm not sure how cross-compatible this fit is, and I've noticed that hard plastic skeletons can vary wildly in the amount of "heroic" proportioning they use, so there's no guarantee of how easy it might be to bash different skeleton kits together without some skulls looking weirdly out of proportion to their bodies....

     


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