The joys and despair of scale.


  • I may be one of the oldest modellers/wargamers here on this forum, I`m 67 years young, I like all aspects of wargaming from real, to Si/Fi ,through to fantasy. I owned and play Twilight 2000, Morrow Project, Walking Dead, over the years i`ve possibally brought it and played it. However all of the mentioned games, had one major fault, a lack of playable "scale" items. I had both forms of walking dead Mantic and Crypto***** or whatever. I sold both,  so many scale issues they were all over the place. 

    I want to play games were all the figures are the same scale, and match my buildings and vehicles, if I wish a WW2 conservation group to be surivors of a "Zombie Appox" I`ll use Rubicon and Wargame Factory for figures and Vehicles and now Wargame Atlantic. I have limited time and funds so I don`t wish cars or tanks to be big for roads or figures. Strangely 1/ 64th as some modern cars and other items that do match well but beware its not a great deal. Still  it`s better than 1/48th that sees car wings up to a figures shoulder.

    Grumpy Gnome and Yronimos Whateley have given a real solid list of proposed items for Cold War, it blew my mind,  all I`d add are Robots and Drones from now to the future, and Survival  asseceries Tents , Frezer boxes, Food Boxes, Ammo Boxes,  every thing  that a survivor carrys on his vehicle. If Wargame Atlantic  make some of these items in 1/56th scale along with those wonderfull Alien Marine style figures they have been showing, then the future should be bright. They could lead the way for us to game what ever we imagine from Falling Skies to World War Z, Terminated, to field any thing we wish, from that WW2 to Vietnam conservation group, verus Falling Skies, who Knows 2022 might just give us all our dreams in mini boxes. 

    Make them the same scale 1/56th and a whole new world of figures opens up, Si/Fi , Zombies, they are real with a Hummer in the back ground.   



  • Ah the far horizon, never reached dream of consistent scale. I hear you mate... I really do. I was recently shaking my head at the size disparity between a 28mm Perry M1 Garand and a 28mm Warlord Games M1 Garand. You can get away with more scale discrepancies with earlier period figures that lack industrial standardization. Now I am wondering how WA WW2 Italians will match up scale wise with Warlord Games WW2 Italians. I like to kitbash you see...


  • @Grumpy Gnome A Gnome affter my own heart civilians W.F. mixed with W.F. American infantry to make my favourite a WW2 modern day conservation group with Rubicon Vehicles perfect for any Si/Fi event even metors with space bugs. Thats why I`ve parted with so many things recently hate helmets not matching guns over size, jerry cans up to the waist.!!!!!

    Happy New year pleased to meet you/ 


  • "...Robots and Drones from now to the future, and Survival accessories Tents , Freezer boxes, Food Boxes, Ammo Boxes, every thing that a survivor carrys on his vehicle...."

    I really like the idea of more "battlefield accessory" type kits - things like stowage, gun emplacements and the other items you mention. 

    A couple companies (Ertl and Hasagawa seem to come to mind) produced things like that in 1/72 scale back in the '80s and can still find a those sets, but they're way too small, and you can find lots of that sort of thing in 1/35 scale, but it's mostly too big.  You can "fudge" the scale a little bit, especially where you're dealing with "heroic" proportions (Death Fields, for example), but there are limits to can be done!

    Dreamforge had a (sadly out-of-print) IronCore "Stormtrooper Accessory Set" which was a fantastic product that included things like weapon and ammo boxes, "robot mules", portable computers, tons of loose small-arms (pistols, grenades, anti-tank rockets, SMGs, assault rifles, and more), and all sorts of other fantastic accessories - I bought two boxes of those when they were still available, and I've been using the bits for all kinds of projects for years now.  Wargames Atlantic seems to have picked up that license and have been reproducing at least a couple of the other kits in this line, and I really hope this accessory set makes a comeback, too!

    Short of that, you do have some great options out there for at least some scenery:

    • Mantic Games produced a great little "Sci-Fi Scenery" Terrain Crate in "28mm Heroic" scale (a lot of sci-fi furniture like tables, computer terminals, gun lockers, and so on, as well as ammo boxes, freezers, and that sort of thing)
    • Mantic also produces or produced a set of sci-fi doors that might come in handy.
    • Mantic also produces some Terrain Crate sets of "modern" terrain that is suitable for zombie apocalypse games, WWII gaming, and other 20th century game settings, in themes like "Haunted Manor", "Gothic Mansion", "Battlefield Ruins", "Cityscape", Campgrounds, "Village Church", "Hospital", "Checkpoint Tango"... all of these things are great for pulp, modern, post-apocalypse, cyberpunk, and even wild-west and Victorian game settings (with a little fudging and curation).  The "Checkpoint Tango" set for example includes guard shacks, sandbag walls, and ammo boxes.
    • Mantic also produces a lot of fantasy terrain which can be used for historical gaming for pretty much anything from the dark ages, right up to the early 20th century, with some creativity and curation (thinks like wooden crates, barrels, tables and chairs, etc. really don't change a lot from fantasy gaming, through the dark ages up to WWII or so!)
    • Archon Studios' "Dungeons & Lasers" products are a great source of sci-fi and fantasy terrain; the main product line is designed to be floors and walls for building 3D fantasy and sci-fi 'dungeons' and cityscapes, but there are accessory sets as well, and the "Sci-Fi Customization Bits" set, for example, is a great source of sci-fi ammo boxes, sentry-guns, robots, computer terminals, and lots of other great terrain, and at least some of the sci-fi and fantasy bits are suitable for 20th-century and near-future gaming.
    • Reaper Bones produces some great plastic miniatures in their Chronoscope and Savage Worlds lines (Savage Worlds generally leans toward the Victorian/Western and Pulp era characters, while Chronoscope is a "kitchen sink" of modern and sci-fi figures and terrain); Chronoscope has some great sci-fi military figures ("IMEF" and "Novacorps" factions), as well as a variety of sci-fi, cyberpunk, Jazz-era and Victorian Cthulhu investigators and monsters, etc.  (Reaper's bread-and-butter product lines are fantasy figures, which are worth checking out as well for aliens and monsters ranging from Cthulhu style stuff to Gothic Horror regulars like vampires, zombies, werewolves, and the like); Reaper's fantasy Bones miniatures also include scatter terrain and dungeon-dressing that can be useful for historical gaming up to the 20th Century (again, things like barrels, crates, and the like can beused up to about WWII, and maybe beyond)
    • Reaper Bones CAV Strike Ops is a mech-warrior sort of war game in a smaller scale than 28mm, but the battlemechs, combat vehicles, and terrain can, with a little creativity, be repurposed as robots and drones

     

    I think we can improv 1/48, 1/56, 1/64, and even the occasional 1/72 or 1/35 scale model kits and accessories (with a little creativity, as these scales are definitely too small or large, respectively, to be convincing if played straight), but there's definitely a problem of keeping scale consistent, considering how spotty the coverage is in these scales.

    I think that in 28mm heroic scale, weird scale consistency and proportions just come with the territory - I've come to accept "close enough" as being the standard for this scale; some of the earlier minis this hobby started with are 25mm with more or less normal proportions which put them a little closer to an exaggerated 1/72/HO scale than anything else, while "scale creep" has resulted in some wildly inconsistent results up to a quite exaggerated 35mm or more scale that looks like a weird, cartoonish 1/48 scale, and I think a lot of us just use this stuff side-by-side with a lot of handwaving.

    I'd definitely like to see a more consistent and reliable supply of 28mm vehicles, drones and bots, and stowage and accessories, in any event!


  • @Geoff Maybury Happy New Year, and a pleasure to meet you too!

    @Yronimos Whateley Yet again I find myself agreeing with you.


  • HAPPY NEW YEAR to you both. Don`t forget toys if it`s pure Si/Fi  or Fantasy, if its your scratch thing, no problem. With those scales or others, just tie the build to the right scale1/56th, by useing  the  accessories in the right size eg- 60 call, jerry cans, radio arials, doors etc. 

    I think we three are singing from the same page. Cheers Yronimus, Grumpy. Here`s to a great 2022.  


  • You too!

    Toys are an under-rated source of stuff to work with for this sort of thing!  (I've been trying to track down something that might work for an old-fashioned "Flash Gordon"/"Buck Rogers" style rocket-ship - no models or anything out there seem to fit the scale very well, and I'm thinking that finding and modifying some sort of toy might end up being my best option, before I resort to scratch-building!)

     


  • Yronimos if its for 25mm to 28mm figures look on E-bey for Flash and Bucks Hair wash space craft,  both around 5" diameter and 12"  long, often seen in Bing photos of both. Took me 4 years to take in what I was seeing?   


  • @Grumpy Gnome

    Bro, Warlord is just that bad at scaling,  a lot of the weapons they pack with their kits that are bigger in scale then 1/56-1/48 which is the norm for 28mm wargaming. I could literally swap in a "sold as 1/35 scale" grease gun by Tamyia  for the warlord grease guns I own and no one would notice once they are painted. Likewise a lot of their weapons are monstrous next to “sold as 1/48 scale” weapons by Tamyia.


  • @Brian Van De Walker I understand Warlord is “heroic scale” whereas Perry aims for more realistically scaled. 

    I am very surprised to find myself preferring the cartoonish “heroic scale” Warlord over Perry in WW2, whereas I tend to prefer Perry to Warlord in Napoleonics... although I favor Victrix over Perry or Warlord in Napoleonic and Victrix I think falls in the middle of the two when it comes to precise scale aesthetics.

    @Yronimos Whateley has posted some excellent example photos.

    What I really want is some consistency between companies so I can easily kitbash between different sets from different companies. 

    Fiddling each time with different neck joint styles, head size and arm length is one thing. Different sized handmade swords is one thing, different industrial mass produced rifles is soemthing else.

    I was surprised how well a Perry medieval head worked on a Gripping Beast Dark Ages body but it works for me, it may not work for someone else. Artistic tastes are very personal.

    Even if cartoonishly exaggerated I prefer Warlord rifles to Games Workshop Imperial Guard nerf guns.


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