WW1 Rules and WGA Starter Box Set


  • WGA has indicated they are working on rule sets.

    I hope they are working on WW1 rules.  Their WW1 plastic 28mm miniatures line is one of a kind.  There are popular rule sets for just about every other period, but WW1 seems wide open.

    GW kind of revolutionized war gaming by offering rules and miniatures in a comprehensive package.  I still have fond memories of the 40K 2nd Edition starter box set with 2 squads of monopose Blood Angels vs a buttload of Orks and Grots.  And who remembers the WFB starter with High Elves vs Goblins?  Those monopose High Elf spearmen were actually better than the multi piece plastics that replaced them. I still look forward to new 40K editions just to see which factions and what will be in the box.  (Although the constant new editions, new codexs, and sky high prices finally drove me to other games).

    Others now emulate the model.  Warlord Games for instance had/has a superficially nice SPQR starter with Gauls and Romans.  They also sell foam that fits in the game box and holds all your completed game minis.  It's actually brilliant except for the game box being so cheap and flimsy it doesn't seem worth it.

    Getting to the point, who/what would you like to see in WGA Starter Set?

    What would you call it?

    I checked and there are already WW1 games called "The Great War" and "The War to End All Wars."



  • My idea is "Rock of the Marne!"

    On 15 JUL 1918 the American 3rd Infantry Division stood in front of a German juggernaut.  It was the Germans last attempt to defeat the allies using their newly developed Storm Trooper tactics.  The 3rd Infantry Division must hold their positions along the Marne.  With their French allies falling back, forward elements of the 3rd Infantry Division refuse to give ground.  Bending in their flanks they break attack after German attack.... earning the moniker "Rock of the Marne!"

    Box Set could perhaps include two US Army squads some leadership,  and a crew served machinegun.  It would also include three squads of Geman Storm Troopers, their leadership, and a flamethrower.  Some terrain like a ruined French house, a couple dead trees, and a dead cow would be nice.

    It's a good battle/scenario to pick for a number of reasons:

    The battlefield is fluid having moved away from the years held trenches.  This allows more maneuver. 

    It gives the rules the interesting problem of how to represent the morale and effectiveness of the eager and gallant but green American versus their skilled and veteran but war weary German opponents.  

    The two forces fight very differently.

    The Americans are still using the "Spirit of the Bayonet" tactics their allies gave up on by 1916.  They have a real emphasis on individual marksmanship.

    The Germans are relying on fire and maneuver and heavy hand held firepower.


  • The 3rd Infantry Division Patch:

    The 3rd Infantry Division is one of the few US Army Divisions to wear its patch on the helmet. 

    As we speak, 3ID Soldiers are training with the "Broke Television" sewn on their helmet covers. 


  • Americans are on the list but not for the game in a box. 😉


  • @Hudson Adams 

    That's genuinely super cool and exciting news.

     

     


  • @Hudson Adams 

    Sweet!!

    Uh, how far down on the list??


  • @Mark Hoffman the British are in layout, four other WW1 sets are almost done sculpting, and then we'll tackle the Yanks.


  • @Hudson Adams 

    You guys are doing God's work.  Your releases are just about the only thing about 2021-22 that isn't concentrated dog cr*p.


  • @Hudson Adams 

    Thanks for the update, I appreciate it!!


  • Wow, British, FOUR other WWI sets, AND yanks, AND a boxed set!   That's a LOT of WWI territory being covered, sounds fantastic!  I normally do almost exclusively fantasy/sci-fi gaming, but something about the idea of historical WWI gaming really works for me, I have a feeling I'll be a customer, I'm already tempted to get a cuple boxes of the existing Wargames Atlantic WWI kits!

     

    For other starter set ideas:

    • Deathfields:  Condemned to the Beasts (Cannon Fodder vs. [Alien Monsters])... the aliens could be giant spiders (though that isn't really a beginner-friendly kit; perhaps some simplified giants spiders?), or lizard men, or hypothetical killer robots or "not-Xenomorphs" or humanoid aliens ("not-Predators"), or anything else, really, though I'm assuming a generic Cannon Fodder vs. not-Xenos could be popular, and might surely be readily expanded by gamers buying extra boxes of any upcoming Space Marine style kit, kits containing aliens of any other description,
      • Flexible and modular rules should be readily adaptable to a variety of sci-fi scenarios, including skirmishes between "official" Death Fields factions, factions invented using accessory sprues or kitbashing, and options for vehicles, heavy weapons, giant combatants, aliens, etc. Include a flyer promoting and up-selling these sorts of expansions/upgrades!
      • Alternative starter faction pairings (names TBD): 
        • Bulldogs vs. Lizard Men - for a Victorian Sci-Fi pairing!
        • Grognards vs. Bulldogs - surely a classic Death Fields grudge match of the aeons!
        • Partisans vs. Zombies - the classic '60s Zombie Movie option?   (Alternatively, Partisans vs. Little Green Men, for a '50s B-Movie sci-fi pairing....)
        • "Aunty's Choice" - what would be your favorite Death Fields starter set combatants???

     

    Fantasy:

    • Classic Fantasy:  Dungeon Raid  A sprue of Classic Fantasy goblins plus a sprue of Classic Fantasy skeletons defend their dungeon lair from a sprue of Late Romans and a sprue of Classic Fantasy Halflings.  ("Evil is Good!")
    • Flexible starter rules should ideally leave room for expansions/plug-ins with any Classic Fantasy faction, historical army, monster, or anything else the gamers can imagine.....  Include a colorful flyer to up-sell and promote WGA's Classic Fantasy factions, naturally!  :) 
    • Alternative fantasy factions:
      • Dark Age Irish
      • Dark Age Goths
      • Conquistadors
      • Classic Fantasy Lizard Men
      • (hypothetical) Creatures of the Night
      • (hypothetical) Fantasy Adventurers (each sprue containing four figures, a fanatasy adventurer party of generic axe-dwarf, generic elf ranger, generic halfling burglar, and generic robed human spellcaster, each containing a few head and weapon options, perhaps?)
      • (hypothetical) Pirates!
    • Weird Fantasy/Horror Matchups:
      • Lizard Men vs. Afghans
      • "Terracotta" Soldier Warring States guys vs. Boxer Chinese
      • Aztecs vs. (hypothetical) Mummies
      • Skeletons vs. (hypothetical) Greek warriors (a classic Harryhausen Techicolour stop-motion battle!)
      • Panzer Lehr vs. (hypothetical) British Armored Knights (Subsitutiary Locomotion spell not included...)
      • (hypothetical) Apocalypse Survivors vs. (hypothetical) zombies - a bit dull, but standard-issue zombies seem to be popuar!

     

    Historical - Cold war:

    • Cold War: The Smell of Napalm (Americans vs. Vietcong?)  It sounds like the Vietnam theme might be a winner this year, with a number of companies doing this uninspired and obvious but no doubt popular match-up.
    • Alternatives (probably almost entirely hypothetical sets, as I dont think WGA actually have anything planned for this line, at least none that have been teased):
      • Cold War:  Heart of Darkness  (War in Indochina 1940s French or British/ANZACs vs. Viet Minh)
      • (name TBD) (Vietnamese vs. Cambodians)
      • (name TBD) (Soviets vs. Mujahadeen)
      • Cold War:  Red Dawn  (modern militia vs. Soviet paratroopers - an alt-history matchup?)

     


  • @Yronimos Whateley 

    Yes.


  • @Yronimos Whateley 

    "(Name TBD) (Soviets vs. Mujahadeen)"

    The Bear Goes Over the Mountain

    (Although that might be copyrighted?)


  • Hmmmh.  WW1 Box Set is already in the works. The French and Germans are WGA's most established WW1 armies.  Infantry box sets out and machineguns on the way.  

    Idea 2.  

    "Miracle on the Marne!"

    6-12 SEP 1914.

    Battered Allied armies retreat from the victorious German armies.  At the gates of Paris the Allies turn and counterattack.

    In popular memory 6,000 French troops delivered to the battle by Paris taxi cabs are instrumental to victory.  Paris and the Allied War effort is saved.  It is the turning point of the war and arguably the most important battle of the war.

    This is when the war was still one of maneuver which makes for a more interesting game.  

    Contents:  One box French Infantry, one box German Infantry.  One French machinegun.  One German machinegun.  Some terrain:  Trees, destroyed French house, a 1914 French taxi cab ;)


  • Just realized WGA's WW1 German and French kits are more suitable for 1916 onwards.   Back to the drawing board on speculation.   


  • Well Americans aren't really a good competitor for a boxed set, they only saw combat in 1918, moreover for a boxed set, the second battle of the Marne in which the rock of the Marne fought was mostly won by a far larger French and brittish force with help from the said American division and an Italian expeditionary force of like 4000 men, so to cover these in a boxed set, the 3rd could be cool, but would sound terribly us-centered.

    However, why not one set for each front in fine? Like Verdun for the west, maybe the Somme if really the Tommies cannot handle to not be the stars of the day, Brussilov offensive for the east, Isonzo for the alps, why not Gallipoli to give the Commonwealth some love if Verdun is chosen for the west, and another for the Balkan front (that last one is difficult bc of the many factions there) 


  • They shall not pass? (Ils ne passeront pas). There's a board game with the name, but I don't know of any rules sets.


  • @Nathan Ward 

    You mean like this?

     


  • I kid.  Really cool idea.

     


  • @Nathan Ward maybe with the title "on ne passe pas" there shall be no conflict then, I think this impersonal formulation is even more used as a motto than "ils ne passeront pas", as shown by the medals jtam posted and some songs from this time like "Verdun la victorieuse", there is also the direct "vous ne passerez pas" but then we will be in trouble with lotr


  • @Charles Berque Thanks Charles - my schoolboy French is just a tad rusty...


  • The box game could be the quintessential French Vs German battle of Verdun.  The available WGS kits work well and you get to use a lot of the options.  For example the French have Chauchats by Verdun.  

    Box set contents:

    3 Squads of French Infantry and a French heavy machinegun.

    3 Squads of Germans and a German flamethrower.  

    Plastic trench line.  (Similar to the Wall of Martyrs but with slightly less skulls.)  (I think some would pick up the box set for the scenery alone.)

    A commemorative Verdun Battle / Verdun game coin.

    Rulebook.

    Scenario / Learn the rules booklet.

    Dice. 

    Measuring tape. 

     


  • Another new box set example:

    15 figures and a game.  Some included cardboard old west buildings would have made this.

    Like this:

    But more like this:


  • @JTam I don't think so. I have a book called The Bear Went Over the Mountain. Which is a book of translated military encounters produced by the Soviet Frunz Academy.


  • Now that we are going to have plastic Brits soon, It seems like a good time to revive this thread a little. I hope WGA does produce some rules and I would certainly give them a try. 

    I personally suspect that WWI is a niche for wargaming because the common image many people have is one of hordes of men climbing over the top of a trench and charging with bayonets. Certainly every movie about the war has scenes like that. That kind of fighting did occur early in the war - especially in 1914. But for the period from 1917 on any game covering WWII can also be adapted for the Western Front in 1917-18. That is why Battlefront was able to adapt Flames of War to WWI with very few changes to the rules. For other times and places though, I don’t have much expertise but I think the fighting was very different.

    If you want to do a purely skirmish level game then trench raiding began very early in the war and it occurred to me that the 0200 rules with SAS and German sentries might be adaptable for that.  The earliest trench raid I have documented was by the French army in November 1914, only 3 months into the war. 

    Through 1915 armies on all sides were experimenting and innovating, sometimes with disastrous results, sometimes with minor success. By the middle of 1916 though, armies were beginning to learn different ways of fighting and began reorganizing infantry into platoons and sections with specialized weapons and training. For the German and French armies, the evolution of infantry tactics took place during the fighting for Verdun. For the British army it was the battle of the Somme.

    By February 1917, the British army had published an entirely new manual for infantry tactics.

    https://ia802708.us.archive.org/1/items/instructionsfor02offigoog/instructionsfor02offigoog.pdf

    This was a revolution in infantry tactics that had incorporated the cruel lessons that had been learned during 1916. If you have served in a modern army, the platoon organization and tactics are different but definitely recognizable. I have singled out the British, but the French had already adopted a similar doctrine in 1916 and the Germans had been experimenting with what they called stormtrooper tactics since 1915. Most armies were not able to train all soldiers to the new standard - that required months of rotating divisions out of the line to retrain them. For smaller forces like Canada and Australia the retraining occurred very quickly and the BEF came to depend on them to spearhead offensives. Effective tactics did not make the fighting any easier or less costly. The periods of “open warfare” during WWI were the deadliest phases of the war by far. A quarter of all Canadian casualties were suffered during the final 100 days of the war, when very experienced soldiers were using the latest tactics and technology. From an infantry strength of roughly 50,000 men in the Canadian Corps, 45,000 were wounded or killed during that time. 25,000 conscripts helped replenish their ranks.

    There are three periods of the war that I think work very well for a platoon level wargame.

    The German withdrawal to the Hindenburg line in March 1917 was recently featured in the movie 1917. The first half of the film does a good job of visualizing the surprise and uncertainty the German withdrawal created. When the Anglo-French armies advanced toward the new German defenses, they did so with small scouting forces that had to overcome the pockets of German delaying forces. This was a time when most British troops were still learning the new methods of open warfare. There is plenty of scope to wargame a British or French platoon encountering a German platoon waiting in ambush in a shattered countryside. Or the Germans could be counter-attacking. 

    Operation Michael in March 1918 is another good period for skirmish gaming. This was the German 1918 spring offensive that they hoped would defeat the allies. They did drive deep into allied territory in many places and of course this culminated in the second battle of the Marne.

    The third phase would begin on August 8 1918 with the Battle of Amiens. The following Allied counter-offensive recaptured the ground lost during Operation Michael and then broke through the Hindenburg line. Canadian and Australian forces were prominent during this phase, but British, French and American forces all began a general advance against a retreating German army. 

    All of those phases of the war can be played with platoon or company sized forces with or without tanks and there doesn’t need to be any trenches at all. Armies always dug in where they halted of course, but nothing like the sophisticated trenches of the Hindenburg line.


  • As a note of interest, until 1917 Canadian troops were all volunteers, as were all Australian and South Aftrican troops throughout the war (there were two attempts to introduce conscription in Australia but both times it was defeated in parliament).

    The British kit would do okay as substitute Americans - very similar steel helemets and somewhat similar equipments and uniform (especially if wearing puttees instead of gaiters). The Springfield bolt action rifle is not too different at 28mm to the Mauser, and in any case there was use of British and French equipment by the Americans, so you could definitely get away with a bit of kitbashing there anyway.

    Battle of Hamel (July 1918) was the first major operation to feature US forces, where they were attached to the (by then very) veteran Australians, under Monash. Very suitable for platoon level actions - it's a neat example of successful combined arms between infantry, tanks and airpower, too.

     


  • I think the brodie is actually identical externally (especially at 28mm scale) between WW1 British and Americans with the differences being nitpicky details that can only be seen with the two side-by-side and looking at the interior, not merely "similar". M1917 Enfield was actually more common (3 to 1) among Americans than the 1903 Springfield and the better rifle in every way except the longer barrel, and it's little more than a caliber conversion of the 1914 Enfield. The distinctive rear sight makes the 1914 and 1917 among the easiest World War bolt actions to ID at a distance.

    As for starter kit, I think one tempting option is too pick a battle where both the French and other allies equiped by the French fought. That way a player can call their force French or one of various minor powers.


  • Don't forget that 4 US Army regiments fought with the french and had US uniforms, but french helmets and weapons, not many knew this thing, perhaps bcz they were "coloured" regiments. So hypotethically one could swap heads and helmets with french arms to simulate them.


  • @Alessio De Carolis the French kit mentions those, and has heads specifically for them. Using those heads and French arms on British bodies would give you their early look; late in the war they switched to Brodies. But it's basically paint and not sculpting that determines how African American a figure looks, so I can't see any issues with using British heads.

     


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