Check out the announcement and comment below!
Ooh Rah preparing to "Get Some"
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Hudson Adams Moderator
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Yeah, these look really good. I dont know what I will use them for, but I definitely want a box. I do hope we get some female heads so I can add a Vasquez to my unit.
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Hudson Adams Moderator
@William Redford will be a second set if there is demand
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@Hudson Adams Based on all the reactions I have seen, as well as my own. I am betting there will be. I am not a modern or scifi gamer really, and you have me excited for this set. So that probably is a good indicator.
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I've been waiting on these from the first teasers so I'm glad to see how they turned out.
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@Grumpy Gnome Like I said on Dakka. I hope THIS set doesnt get more over the top american changes. This one does a good job of capturing the Aliens/Starship troopers/Cadians feel. I hope it stays that way. As Wargames Atlantic said on Facebook that there will be other "American" sets, let the next one capture that feel.
But A dedicated female marine set would be awesome.
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@William Redford I dont think it needs anything, honestly. Although I wouldn't turn up my nose at optional parts I could use on other figures. Cowboy hats for instance are useful for Rangers in post apocalytpic games.
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I do have questions about the rifles barrel area...is it twin barrels alongside each other with the rifle barrel on one side and the grenade launcher on the other? Or are those supports, honestly reminds me of the Fallout 4 Gauss rifle a little.
Edit: Having seen the carbine, it seems the barrel is hidden behind the squared barrel end of the grenade launcher.
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This set looks awesome. You can do Aliens, you can do near future, you can do 40K with it. Awesome.
I'm not sure how you could make it more "American" and I don't know why you would want to. If you really need to capture the true spirit of the American fighting man just include a head with a giant dip in his lower lip.
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Reference:
The weapons look great so far.
it would be nice if this guy had a slung rifle, or the rifle in his weak hand:
This is probably more pistols arms than one needs:
(Pistols are near useless now in combat and I don't see that changing a couple hundred years from now.)
I think we definitely need a flamethrower:
The what looks like a machinegun is nice:
But surely an external support harness would be helpful? ;)
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Yeah... I like that guys... a bunch of boxes for me... 👍
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Umm Lieutenant... what do those Pulse rifles fire?
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@JTam Those pistols are going to be very useful, head swap and these are marine pilots. They will also be useful for those using them as Police/Corporate Security in Cyberpunk games and I'm sure there will be other games like Stargrave where you need pistol armed troops.
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@John Wilson
Fair enough.
A pilot mini would actually be awesome.
It's worth noting that nowadays the vast majority of rotary wing aviators have ditched the pistols for PDWs or long arms.
US Kiowa pilot uses his M4 to engage Taliban.
Russian attack pilot pulls out an AK74 at 2 minutes 20 seconds.
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I believe from earlier discussions that the magazine on the rifle is for the grenade launcher rather than the rifle itself. That could have changed of course.
Most of the front bulk is I believe (from earlier teasers) the underslung grenade launcher.
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I love how the Marines look, I find the guns a bit bulky for my preference. Oddly enough it's the same with Cannon Fodder, guns are just a bit too bulky.
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@Grumpy Gnome
Reference:
That is based off the premise that the Grognards and Bulldogs are "cultural paradies" which I don't think they are. The kits are "semi-historical" and reflect kit and uniforms used by said forces historically. There's no parody or "taking the piss."
Reference the Grognards : The French army did love greatcoats for near a couple hundred years. They still wear the Kepi Blanc. Etc.
Cultural parody or taking the piss would be spring loaded surrender flags attached to their rifles in lieu of bayonets, a table covered in cheese and wine for an objective, and a poodle mascot. Even then, the wine thing probably isn't parody. The French Army did/does take their wine ration seriously.
Reference the Bulldogs: Looks like historical uniform and equipment items to me. The only thing arguably parody I noticed was the tea cup. But I would argue that's not parody, that's reality. You've done reenactment, the Brits kept a combat tea cup strapped to the OUTSIDE of their P37 smallpacks just for ease of access.
......
I would argue the set as currently designed does reflect the American way of war. We always try and win with technology, material, and firepower....all of which this set reflects.
If you one does need to American it up..... alternate heads with the only genuinely American military headgear I'm aware of would probably do the trick.... Campaign hats (Smokey the Bear hats) and ball caps. Oh wait, or maybe those multipoint USMC caps. I was serious about the head with the giant dip in. Smoking is almost dead in the service, but Copenhagen is still driving on strong.
If you absolutely need to satisfy European expectations you will need to make all the torsos fatter and add a hand holding a cheeseburger.
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@Grumpy Gnome
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Great ideas. A guy chucking a drone in the air would be cool.
I like a lot of the ideas from the fantastic Eisenkern Command Set.
Particularly the FiST team with laser designator.
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Reference:
Well, let's take a look:
Looks fine to me.
Reference what's "going on at the front." Looks like a common white light/IR light/visible laser/IR laser combo. The Army is issuing just such a device to close combat units with the M17 pistols.
Reference the rail on top. The rail on top would be problematic if the weapon had a reciprocating slide. While a reciprocating slide is the most common solution in centerfire pistols now, it's not the only one.
Who knows what they will come up with in the next 200 years.
For that matter the weapon could be firing very small rounds in three round hyperburst. (Increases hit probability, helps defeat body armor). Smaller caliber rounds (.22 and friends) often can get away without a moving slide. Does this look familiar?:
Note full length rail on top.
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First thoughts- they look great. Rolled sleeves? Check. Disgruntled look? Check. They look like peeved Devil Dogs who are missing out on some sweet libbo and are gonna take it out on someone as a result.
Now, having said that, there are a couple things I've read above that I agree with. First- the weapons are HUGE and could stand to be scaled back some. And have sights added. Marines use their sights. "One shot, one kill, ready to die, and probably will." Also- the grenade launcher needs more definition (which likely is coming as I'm thinking this is early sculpt work).
Pouches are low. They try climbing something tall like a low wall, and those pouches are going to impede their hips. Well... They look low. I'm guessing their ammo and grenade pouches. In which case, ammo needs to be front and center for ease of access. Grenades slightly less so.
The squad support weapon is... REALLY big. Like, Ma-Duece big. And I can attest that a weapon like that isn't one a single hombre lugs around and fires from the hip. Granted- space aged technology could make it lighter, but even so- space aged technology could make it SMALLER and more nimble. Look where the Marines are going squad level right now, and it's lighter, smaller, more tech driven. That hefty princess of the battle field would be great in a weapons teams set for heavy weapons, but as a squad level machine gun, it's too big.
Pistols are cool, but lousy secondaries compared to a good carbine, so I'd like to see a carbine variant of the main rifle and fewer pistol options (though that pilot idea is sound, plus butter bars need their pistol to feel important...). A rocket of some kind would be cool- god knows we carried those things around. Could just be one that gets carried on the back attached to a pack. Speaking of- packs. Daypacks are clutch. I hope there's daypacks/O2 packs.
Lastly (and this is likely already in the set given how the others have gone) gasmasks. Especially if these are meant to be future Teufels. I hate painting faces, and I can see myself saving loots to get myself some of these. Actually... being a Marine, I feel I'm obligated to buy some... Make my life easier- give me visors and skin free helmets. I'm great with the rolled sleeves. Nothing says "I'm a professional and I'm here to hurt you" like a Teufel with well rolled sleeves.
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@JTam Agreed on the pistol comment. Also, I really feel like we'll be a little farther than slightly better Kevlar helmet in 200 years. Why aren't these guys kitted in light powered armor? Then the rifles would work I think.
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I really like this set only thing I`d like to see implimented, is scaled down a bit weapons. Want to really make my day scale a set to World at war scale, to go with Iron Core etc.
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Reference rifle complaints, let's take a look at the rifle and address them point by point.
Complaint 1:
Because 40K.
A more detailed answer? Because anything that can proxy for 40K Imperial Guard will outsell something that can't by an exponentially larger amount. I do find it interesting that many are pointing our how large the rifle is, but no seems concerned with the grapefruit sized grenade.
Complaint 2 on the layout:
This is what the layout appears to be to me. It's basically a G11 with a forward mounted underslung magazine feed grenade launcher.
Main body is similar to the G11:
It's probably eating caseless ammo like the G11.
Innards are German Space Magik (tm).
The forward grenade launcher is underslung like most.
It's magazine fed.
(Yes this a shotgun (M26), but the kit's grenade launcher is probably using similarly sized 20-25mm grenades). ( Sidenote, I've fired these a few times. Someone got a kickback.... they kind of suck.)
It's pump action.
So the layout to me more or less makes sense and is workable.
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Complaint 3 on the way the combatant is carrying the weapon particularly in conjunction with the perceived recoil:
This guy is shouldering his weapon a little awkwardly.
But frankly this is the price you pay for the flexibility of multipart plastics. One piece metals or resin minis will always have more natural firing poses. It's the nature of the beast.
I think the magazine is for the grenade launcher, but for the sake of argument say it is for the rifle and the rifle is chambered in "full battle rifle" ammo. Firing it like the miniature is holding it is not going to send it flying out of his hands and over his shoulder. 7.62 NATO/.308/7.62x54R is stouter if you grew up on 5.56/.223 but it's not an elephant gun or even a shotgun. A grown man doesn't get tossed around by .308.
Complaint 4 on the optic:
The carrying handle/optic IS probably a touch too far back on the weapon.
It is in fact big enough to fit an optic. PS90 anyone?
The "carrying handle" isn't for carrying the weapon. Any Soldier can tell you that ;) But if you wanted to do that for some reason I guess you would remove your glove.
Or maybe it's like the "carrying handle" on the G36 and it isn't a carrying handle, it hold the optic and shields the ambidextrous charging handle. Or maybe it's like the "carrying handle" for the M16 which protects the rear sights and acts as mounting point for alternate day/night optics. Sidenote: A man with big hands wearing gloves probably isn't getting his hand in an M16's carrying handle either.
Sure is heck isn't going to be able to use a M16A4/M4 "carrying handle."
Complaint 5 on the "ejection port":
Honestly this just seems nitpicky. But here's some rational. The "ejection port" is as big as it needs to be as it just ejects vestigial debris and gases from the ceaseless ammo. Or how about this - the ejection port narrows at the rear as that's where you fit the detachable ambidextrous charging handle. We would have to see the left side of the weapon to judge the feasibility of this theory. (Some rifles convert from right to left handed. The charging handle is fitted to one side or the other and the opposite side becomes the ejection port.)
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@Battle Specter
Reference:
I think this kit is a pretty firm homage to the Colonial Space Marines from Aliens. (Which is awesome). Consequently the equipment and armor is taking its design cues from that source.
There was a good discussion on neat future war and technology (to include exoskeletons) here:
https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/61959/today-and-tomorrows-war
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I agree with @JTam - looks like a fine homage to the Aliens Colonial Marines, by way of "heroic" 40k proportions.
I'm not sure that's meant to be a rail on top of the handgun, but a barrel shroud of some sort? That doesn't look like a slide at all - I don't think we can fairly think of it as a conventional semi-auto pistol powered by action/reaction physics: maybe a rail-gun, gas/air gun, or some other exotic technology, such as a Gyrojet gun?
Illustration: Gyrojet pistol - it doesn't fire bullets, but 12mm rockets; note the odd barrel shroud. A 22nd or 23rd century Gyrojet pistol, with under-barrel laser, flashlight, and/or stun gun, perhaps? Sure, why not?For what it's worth, there were Gyrojet rifles/carbines as well:
Gyrojet carbine and rifle: The "microjet" projectiles leave the barrel at low velocity and temperature, and accelerate at about 30 feet from the weapon to a high speed - the barrel doesn't need to be very heavy, the projecties are relatively light-weight, and the entire weapon is very compact, light, and low-recoil. I'm not so sure the troopers' carbines aren't based on something like gyrojet technology, perhsps the grenade launchers as well....I assume the "full battle rifle" ammo/mags are actually for the grenade launcher (analogous to the 30mm (iirc) grenades from the Aliens movie), but an alternative ammo to either "full battle rifle" ammo or Gyrojet "microjets" might instead be Smart Bullets, which might be expected to be a little larger than conventional intermediate assault rifle ammo, to allow for guidance system and fins; Smart Bullets are much more accurate over longer distances than conventional ammo (and much more accurate over longer distances than they are shorter ones), and depending on the AI of the guidance system, long-range optics might not even be necessary or even practical, since the bullet's AI would take over and home in on the target regardless of the shooter's accuracy. Besides, optics, it seems, are built into the troopers' helmets, no?
Gyrojet and smart bullet technology - or some combination of the two, or some futuristic electromagnetic weapon like a rail gun - could conceivably be easily fired from some of those awkward poses, too ;)
For whatever it's worth, I actually own one of the original 1960s Colt AR-15s with the flat sides, triangular handguards, slender barrel, and integrated "carry handle", and I can attest to the fact that only a kiddie-sized hand is getting into that "handle" :) The more modern detachable "carry handles" have even less room, to allow for the hardware to attach to a rail. The "handles" DO seem to do a great job of mounting and protecting integrated iron sights, though, and I used to own a '60s era M-203 grenade launcher sight that clamped onto the handle, as a collectible and novelty, and it seemed to be fine for that purpose. I'm not sure if it was actually designed to be a carry handle, but I kind of expect it wasn't - there are much easier and more comfortable ways to carry the rifle, starting with the pistol grip, and including the sling, forward handguard close to the magazine, and the narrow part of the butt-stock behind the handle. An elaborate sight-mounting platform seems far more likely, especially since later "flat top" versions of the rifle do away with the handle, for mounting rails for a wider variety of optics.
I assume that raised mounts for optics would be what the "carry handles" on futuristic weapons would be for, too.
Regarding the grapefruit-sized grenade, that's not very far off in size from the "tactical oxygen nukes" used by the movie version of the Starship Troopers, who are very similar in concept to the Colonial Marines (and an idea so over-the-top for an infantry weapon, it would look right at home in 40K!) These nuclear grenades also have a rocket propulsion and use a smart-bullet styleguidance technology, if I remember correctly (been a few years since I saw the movie....)
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Well guys, we all agree, they are really stunning, and we can hardly wait, because we want them, and to be totally honest,"We want them NOW"!!!"👌
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Oh, good catch on the Starship Troopers' rifles, @Grumpy Gnome - I'd forgotten what those looked like!
Starship Troopers
AliensThe rifles for the Ooh Rah guys are not an exact match for either - and I wouldn't expect it to be - but there does seem to be a family resemblance both.
By the way, I'm betting the original working props from the Aliens movie were HEAVY.... apparently they were built from a Thompson SMG married to a sawed-off Remington 870, both of which are some decently heavy guns on their own, with milled receivers, thick barrels, and so on, and what was surely a front-heavy balance could only have made it worse. "Pretty heavy", as in I bet the cast, crew, and stunt team got tired of handling them pretty quickly, and trying to shoot action sequences all day with them had to have gotten old real fast! (Some of the other prop weapons, like the squad's heavy weapons, were made from MG-42's, which I've never handled, but imagine were pretty heavy and awkward as well.)
Some other thoughts:
Re: Whether they need more of an American exaggeration: I'm OK with these guys the way they look now - no further "American flavor" needed in my book: they work great as-is for near-future armed forces from almost anywhere, including British, Russians, Canadians, Australians, international mercenaries, Martians, belters, whatever you can imagine. I think that doing anything to remove the "generic near-future troopers" quality would only hurt the versatility that would make a set like this so useful. Mileage may vary, of course, but I think I prefer them to be slightly "generic" this way!
Also, it looks to me like this is a set that plays well with Cannon Fodder - want a Vazquez expy? Use heads from Cannon Fodder II, and presto! You're set to go.
For that matter, the Cannon Fodder jump suits actually work great as flight suits for making pilot and driver characters for this army: I've been mixing the Cannon Fodder guys in with Eisenkerne troopers with that in mind, including using Eisenkern heads on Cannon Fodder bodies and even Eisenkern upper torsoes on Cannon Fodder legs, and (with only a little fitting) it works great - I see no reason it wouldn't work just as great with Ooh Rah guys as well.
As for the weapons load out, I don't mind having a couple extra pistols for arming those pilots and vehicle drivers. Also, I think someone above mentioned the pistols - and, I imagine, the shotguns - would work fine for security guards, and i agree - that won't matter much to anyone re-creating Aliens Colonial Marines, but for other projects, it'll be nice to have that sort of thing around without trying to source them from other kits.
Bearing in mind that there's only so much weaponry that WGA can fit in a box, I thik some of the options that I'd like to see at least for a Command & Heavy box, if not split between an "Ooh Rah 1" and "OohRah 2" kits might include:
- Rifles/Carbines with and without Grenade Launchers, pistols, shotguns, and heavy machine guns should be great for a base set. If no other weapons were an option, these would be fine.
- Hand grenades/demolition charge (as seen in the preview render, but not mentioned in the article.) Maybe for a heavy/command box?
- Chainsaws - The general space-soldier concept reminds me of the DOOM video game, and its classic melee weapon. I'd source some from another kit, but - almost nobody has good chainsaw bits! (There are a couple small ones in the Warlord Zombie Survivors, but they're a bit small and hard to kitbash with due to the arms being all wrong....) Maybe for a heavy/command box? These would be my preferred melee weapons for the infantry box, though.
- Plasma torch/flamer/melter: Something similar to those used in the movies; these seem to be pretty much ubiquitous to these kits. Heavy/Command (but they're easily sourced from other kits, too.)
- Combat Drones/Sentry Bots: Remote/AI-driven gun turrets and grenade/missile launchers, more or less inspired by the movie. Fixed emplacement and/or self-propelled. Also, computer/tablet bits for the programmers/operators, and spare rifle to sling onto the back of the operators. (Definitely Heavy/Command.)
- Radios/Phones/Communicators, as well as nondescript medical/mechanical hand tools, scanners, trackers, "alien detectors", mine sweepers, or the like. (For comms, medics, technicians, and other support/specialist troops.) (Definitely Heavy/Command.)
- Accessory web gear - the usual mag pouches, holsters, backpacks, ammo cans, etc. (Anywhere these small bits can fit in!)
Of these bits, the chainsaws, drones/sentries, and hand scanners/communicators/trackers/tablets/tools are currently the hardest bits to to source from other kits for kitbashing, and it would be nice to see a convenient source for them!
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Well this settles quite a bit of debate:
The magazine is clearly for the grenade launcher. The generous body of the weapon might have a couple hundred rounds on board.
The inclusions of a carbine for your PLs, RTOs, etc. is nice.
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@Yronimos Whateley as a Battletech fan I would love to see some gyrojet inspired weapons. I almost always go Gyroslug when I'm arming my RPG or Battletroops characters
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@Yronimos Whateley
I had forgotten about the gyrojet firearms.
I bet a 23rd century gyrojet pistol would be powerful enough to blow someone's lungs right out of their body.
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A huge, tactical gyrojet lungbuster with a 300 round magazine, AND a barrel shroud? Come on man, you know the 23rd century will be a really dangerous, dystopian place!
If they could possibly exaggerate these guys to make them even more American, I wonder how they might do it?
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@Yronimos Whateley
If they add a shoulder thing that goes up to the weapon it just won't be fair for the other teams.
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@Yronimos Whateley
Great stuff as always.
Reference:
These would all be awesome inclusions. Got to have the motion detector/auspex.
The plasma torch cutter/welder is a must too. Would allow anyone with EXTREME masochistic tendencies to play as Guard in Space Hulk.
I think a well executed robot sentry gun would have very WIDE appeal.
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@Yronimos Whateley
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I bet your right. The Tommy Gun is a boat anchor whose weight has to be experienced to be believed.
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Man I love the Colt SP1s. Never sell it. Just a great handling, great balancing weapon.
I couldn't afford a Colt SP1 so I built this M16A1 clone. There are many like it, but this one is mine:
Reference:
Reminds me of the way some G36s are set up. It has an optic kind of embedded in the handle and provision for an additional optic above it.
Reference:
Infantry portable nukes for the win.
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i'm just trying to figure out why the rifles have a featureless rectangular bar at the end instead of say, barrels for the rifle and grenade launcher?
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@Mithril2098 Yeah, that does look odd. My guess is that it's part of it still being a work in progress, like all of the heads being the same. The barrel mesh may not have been done yet, or is being decided on.
In regard to a lack of optics on the guns... they appear to have optical stuff on their helmets. It's possible all the sighting stuff is done there and maybe fed to their optic nerve or the eye direct, removing the need to have any sights on the gun.
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@Mithril2098 They're a work in progress, I'm pretty sure. (or who knows, perhaps they'll be modelled that way and have a choice of different muzzles on the sprue?)
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@William Redford
..or Inquisition Stormtroopers.
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The Wargames Atlantic kit plus:
Equals maximum Starship Troopers movie fun.
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A. If you are not making 100% Colonial Marines, why make rifles that look like them? Make a generic sci fi rifle, so the figures will fit into any game or game system. I personally do not want to put figures on a tble and have someone say, those are Colonial Marine knock offs!
B. Whats with the garters on the pants? Are they wearing long stockings or thigh high boots? The pants look awful. Just awful. So much so I am already looking around for alternates which might work.
I want to love these guys. The rifles I can accept, though I would prefer a unique look. But the thigh high stockings on these guys is just an awful look. Take off the gaters and put baggy pockets on the sides.
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@Keith Gatchalian I guess I am the opposite. I like them because they look like colonial marines or mobile infantry. They hit the sweet spot for nostalgia. I didn't notice the pants until I saw your comment on Dakka, but I don't think they look bad.
though.. I am admittedly not really the customer WA would want for these as I will only buy 1 box. If they stay like they are I would definitely buy that 1 box, but still only 1. If they change them though and they are no longer colonial marines or mobile infantry, then that 1 box is not guaranteed.
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@William Redford Except they are neither Colonial Marines or Mi. There are other companies that do those guys, so why make knock offs?
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@Keith Gatchalian well. Just going by the responses here, on Dakka and on Facebook, it seems that's what people like about these. The point is to make something people want to buy. So if based on the people commenting on them that this IS what they want to buy, the question would be why WOULDNT they make them? I mean I have read 2 comments on Dakka that said "they are awful" but other than those 2, it seems the vast majority seem to like them. I could be wrong in that view, but that is the view I have gotten based on comments I have seen.
have you seen a majority saying they don't like the colonial marine/mobile infantry ascetic?
Edit: this set also recently won a poll to be produced faster, all based on the pictures that have been released. So I am thinking the feedback received is generally positive?
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I agree, the pants are awful. They do look like baggy fishing boots, or saggy leg warmers! I guess they are going for an 80's dancer look?
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@William Redford I don't want Colonial Marine knockoffs. I want modern not Cadians sci fi infantry.
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Modern Science Fiction infantry that is American oriented would be awesome! Interesting that they went for a futuristic take and not WW2 guys. I dig it.
The guns do look awful. Too big, knock offs of Pulse Rifles.
And the pants do look weird.
How about optional magazine holders that go across the front? And optics! and night vision gear!
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Love the MahReens!
How about different body types, like fat guys or bean poles! I'm thinking Full Metal Jacket types!
How about pilots, or non body armored guys?
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Does the company read these boards?
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You've heard of Gaunt's Ghosts and Rico's Roughnecks? These guys will be Killians Knock-Offs.
I'd like to see varied body types too. Maybe a space dwarf marine too? Can players cross teams in Death Fields?
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