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WGA Plastic Terrain?

  • JTam

    I recently picked up a Warlord Games "Ruined Hamlet."  It's a neat concept.  

    The ruins can at LEAST be used from the 17th Cemtury to WW2.  Certainly it can probably be used for quite a bit earlier .... and could even be used for the Cold War gone hot/present day/or near future as long as you squint your eyes and imagine them battling in the ruins of Wasserburg or parts of Bad Tolz.

    There are two different sprues, and you get six on the box.

    It's not a perfect kit however.  The elements are going to get a little repetitious over three times.  The houses are a bit on the smallish size, and one of the doorways is for Halflings.

    (I get a smaller footprint for terrain CAN be desirable for scaled Napoleonics.... but at least make the doors tall enough for those playing one to one scale.)

    Anyway, WGA had this sneak peak recently:

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/44406/sneak-peek-what-s-behind-the-curtain?page

    Looks to me like they are getting into the terrain game.

    Would you like to see Wargames Atlantic plastic terrain?

    What are your ideas for terrain?

    My first idea is a kit quite similar to the Warlord one but with damaged half timbered houses.  Suitable for late medieval, Renaissance, Mordheim, .... both World Wars, etc.

     

  • JTam

    Why plastic over MDF?

    Good question.  I think it can be modified a bit easier.  It is sturdier.  Perhaps most importantly the walls can be girthier.... giving a more realistic appearance.

    Plus I have some serious Airfix plastic terrain nostalgia.

  • JTam

    I tend to think of WGA's WW1 miniatures as their "flagship" line.  Certainly it's their most innovative.

    Ideas for WW1 related terrain:

    Trench Lines.

    Crashed biplane.

    Arches and barricades for a Fort Vaux game.

    Another idea would be plastic craters.... similar to the 97% sure out of production GW craters.

    Fill these guys with just a little murky resin to capture that WW1 water logged moonscape hell feel.

     

  • Grumpy Gnome

    When it comes to plastic terrain, there manufacturers out there so the trick would be filling open niches and/or supplementing what is alread out there... ie he,ping deal with the issue of terrain starting to look monotonous.

    Renedra makes quite a bit that they sell in their own shop as well as making terrain for partners like the Perry Brothers. (I think they also make those ruins for Warlord@JTam  )

    https://www.renedra.co.uk/product-category/terrain/

    As does Archon Studio (Both the Rampart and Dungeons & Lasers lines in retail and Kickstarter flavors)

    https://archon-studio.com/shop/

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • GM

    @JTam @Grumpy Gnome I`d love to see correct scale brick work sheets, like plastic card but say1/8" thick,then some concret sheets same. Roof tyling, and windows, doors and wooden sheets that would double forbuildings and boats and corigated iron sheets. They cost a fortune as models card, and are to small being HO/OO, if brought in S gauge you`e hit paydirt, if you can find em.

    Do that and we can build our own.

  • JTam

    @Grumpy Gnome 

    Archon is a new kid on the block isn't?  They have some nice terrain.. and a decent price point.

  • Grumpy Gnome

    Archon has been linked to Prodos, a company in the past with a less than sterling reputation. However, it seems Archon has learned from the Prodos mistakes. 

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • GreenScorpion

    I think the major issue with Archon is that they are still not really a company with a retail side, with almost everything they sell being available as pledge manager rather than a normal store, something heavily highlighted by the fact that in the recent past many of the available products on their own webstore were essentially links to their pledge manager rather than a directly purchasable item.

    While some of their things are starting to appear on retailers like miniaturicum, for example, I think it will be a long time until we have a consistent product line from Archon that can be purchased easily.

    One would think that the success of many of their kickstarters would get them to work normally without additional crowdfunding with exclusive items, but it seems they are still focused on using those platforms as pre-order systems for some of their ideas.

    We shall see how things progress with them in the future.

    My blog on writing that I update from time to time:
    https://greenscorpionbooks.wordpress.com/

  • Steven StGeorges

    @JTam 

    Plastic always over MDF... experimented some really bad construction problems with Frostgrave official buildings and War World Gaming sets during Pandemic.

     

  • Grumpy Gnome

    @GreenScorpion  For quite awhile I was put off buying Archon due to their lack of a real retail website as I was unsure about what delays may come from their Gamefound pledge manager but once I finally used it I was surprised at just how quickly I got the items... a couple of weeks if I remember correctly. Not as fast as buying at your favorite online retailer but still not the same as waiting for an actual Kickstarter to deliver. And much better value for money than the retail packages Archon is putting out now.

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • JTam

    @Steven StGeorges 

    Good to know.

    @Grumpy Gnome 

    Also good to know.

  • M

    @JTam it isworth noting that a lot of the Warlord Boltaction terrain kits were originally created for 20mm/1:72 scale diaramas by Italeri, and as a result end up way too small for the 28mm figures. since their game isn't going for exact ground scale it works play wise but can look a little wonky.

    https://www.battlebrushstudios.com/2015/04/review-warlord-gamesitaleri-wrecked.html

  • JTam

    @Mithril2098 

    Excellent point.

    This kit seems stranger though.  Some pieces and one of the door work fine for 28mm.  Other pieces and the other door are indeed more sized for 20mm/1-72.  

    This excellent write up describes it better than I can:

    http://figurfanatikern.blogspot.com/2013/10/warlord-games-ruined-farmhouse-review.html?m=1

  • GreenScorpion

    @Grumpy Gnome I know things get way more expensive with Archon in retail, but in my personal case anything that is exclusively purchased by debit/credit card is an issue (my bank requires in-app validation of online purchases with card and I don't own a smartphone), which is the case for gamefound, kickstarter and pretty much everything else that Archon might use for their "pre-order" system.
    I have looked at their rampart system for a while, checking reviews and such as I was looking for ways to make nice looking buildings in plastic, but the large amount of ruined parts and the somewhat strange way they found for floors made me avoid purchasing until the card situation started.

     

    So far I have found it hard to make any city/large fortress with available plastic kits, as most seem to have a high focus on ruins, except things like renedra's castle. In my setting battles are not necessarily fought months after the initial attack, so everything being at least partially ruined bothers me.
    I think I might be a minority in terms of my dislike for ruins as I have seen people complaining about the lack of ruined sections or drooling over ruins during crowd funding campaigns or after the announcement of new terrain kits.

    My blog on writing that I update from time to time:
    https://greenscorpionbooks.wordpress.com/

  • Steven StGeorges

    @Grumpy Gnome 

    Since you and Miss GG are more aware about, maybe you could enlight us about Core Space sets? 😁

  • JTam

    @GreenScorpion 

    Mantic makes some nice undestroyed scenery:

    These are slightly damaged, but still look better than most of Chicago:

     

  • Steven StGeorges

    @JTam 

    Another couple of pretty good reviews

    https://taleofpainters.com/2015/04/review-warlord-gamesitaleri-wrecked/

    https://mustcontainminis.com/2019/05/28mm-wrecked-house-review-warlord-games-bolt-action.html

     

     

  • JTam

    @Mithril2098 @Steven StGeorges 

    Selling repackaged 20mm for 28mm games is weak sauce.

     

  • Steven StGeorges

    @JTam 

    Only had a LOT -free caps- of positive returns from friends that did buy Mantic stuff (fantasy or scifi).. could be the best terrain sets. Will dig blogosphere for pertinent reviews. 

  • GreenScorpion

    @JTam I know, they are quite nice sets and are extremely modular.
    I bought the  military compound and built a few fortifications some time ago:

    They look nice for fortifications due to the somewhat square look of the individual parts but for civilian structures they look too standardized to represent the typical city, although they would look great as factories or industrial areas as well.

    The good thing about Mantic's terrain is that you can buy the non ruined parts on their own unlike many other manufacturers who always mix both ruined and non ruined parts in their boxes.

    My blog on writing that I update from time to time:
    https://greenscorpionbooks.wordpress.com/

  • JTam

    @Steven StGeorges 

    Might be worthwhile to wait and see what WGA releases:

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/79909/stand-by-for-a-monumental-figure-release-ooh-rar-hell-yes

    SOMETHING terrainish seems to be on the horizon.  

    But it sounds like GreenScorpion gives it a thumbs up.

    @GreenScorpion 

    That looks great.  What are those mech looking things?

    The city in your minds eye is what you want.  But one could certainly rationalize that pre-fabricated block living quarters are the future. 

     

  • JTam

    @GreenScorpion 

    There's a fun MEGA CLASSIC Soviet movie The Irony of Fate.

    The entire plot hinges on the fact all Soviet cities have the same streets with the same block buildings with the same furnishings:

     

    Grim Dark future... The CCCP, same thing really.

  • GreenScorpion

    @JTam The mechs are Mantic's Striders ( https://www.manticgames.com/games/deadzone/enforcer-strider/ ) and they are reasonably priced mechs/walkers. The smashed cockpit on the left in that picture is from the plague version (you can build both versions from the same kit). The only major issue with the Striders is that they are PVC so gluing is somewhat difficult, but they are quite sturdy once built and would likely survival a nuclear blast better than myself.
    In what relates to the city, the setting for my forces is based on my books, which are not as grim as 40k or the typical soviet based settings. There are still ruined and very dark places in my books, but the large diorama I am planning is for the colony established by Cornelivs, which is a much happier settlement than most in that setting. I know it is likely an utopia but Cornelivs is what I called a technomancer, so technological stuff mostly appears around him like it is magic 😄

    @Steven StGeorges For a quick review of the military compound:

    - Pros:
    Extremely modular allowing you to build completely different buildings;
    Connectors allow building without gluing if desired;
    Good selection of parts for customizing walls, floors and facilities, like communication towers or defences;
    Floors work well with walls and it is noticeable that were designed to be functional;
    Made of HIPS so normal plastic cement works perfectly;

    - Cons:
    Not all parts work well with each other due to some larger details on the parts (not a major issue, but requires testing before final assembly);
    Holes for connectors are sometimes too tight and make it difficult to assemble without glue (holes can be easily widened, but you risk getting them to wide and having trouble keeping the connector in place);
    Floors are rather limited compared to walls in both number and variety;

    Overall they are great kits and the downsides are not as significant as the positive things.

    My blog on writing that I update from time to time:
    https://greenscorpionbooks.wordpress.com/

  • JTam

    @GreenScorpion 

    Thank You.  Kind of a neat little kit.

    PVC plastic huh.  I guess the part about "requires super glue" in the description is accurate.

  • Steven StGeorges

    @JTam 

    Found out, while having a smoke break:

    http://fourdadsoftheapocalypse.blogspot.com/2019/02/terrain-crate-gang-warzone-from-mantic.html

    https://vaultoftheundead.wordpress.com/2020/04/05/ruined-city-deadzone-terrain-crate-scenery/

     

  • Grumpy Gnome

    We have tried Mantic terrain, both the sci-fi stuff from Deadzone as well as the “modern brick buildings” from Mars Attacks. I have not built any of it yet but looked at it enough to try to figure it out. The sci-fi stuff was used and pretty beat up so it went back onto eBay. The Mars Attacks stuff is as new and we have kept it so far but it is underwhelming. It reminds me of Archon’s Rampart and Woodhaven D&L series in that it feels to me like it “approximates” terrain, if you catch my drift.

    In other words, rather than using them as designed (modular) I think they work better as pieces to build own (fixed) terrain using greenstuff to fill gaps. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGlstFtpVuw

    As for Battle Systems cardstock terrain (for their Core Space as well as other games)... I love it. But it is not perfect. It is not as durable as Colin over at Battle Systems makes it appear in his videos when it comes to repeated assembly/disassembly but it as sturdy as he makes out. It is not flimsy. It is just that the edges and joins can wear out and fray. You can do little things to improve it. Color and glue the edges for example. Or glue some pieces together. 

    https://battlesystems.co.uk/tutorials/

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/tag/core-space/

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • GreenScorpion

    @Grumpy Gnome Indeed I think that for things that need to be reassembled often other materials are better, like the core space cardboard terrain you mentioned (despite not being perfect). Still the connectors and modularity can be used as an advantage, since you can have several individual buildings/sections with their individual parts glued together and then use the connectors to simply keep the different sections together on the table so you can have different layouts with fixed sections.
    I have built mine as a collection of individual buildings, but as you can see from the previous picture they go well together either as independent buildings or as part of a larger fortification.

     

    If anyone is interested in the full layout, this is what I have built from a single military compound box (I stilll have some spare parts):

    https://i.imgur.com/hUBAtO5.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/nZNOHg0.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/cgJjMIZ.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/nKj4g4U.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/Tm9Kidw.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/TK5H6e0.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/w7xUqoq.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/9BIqCR7.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/PYiTA00.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/9H385c0.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/4Ujzy97.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/V70S556.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/uTfwDkm.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/t2v9lc6.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/iOlC2zr.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/ZflX6Jb.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/Jq5IQYZ.jpg

    Intentionally as links to avoid saturating the thread.

    Close up's on the first building I have done with those parts:

    https://i.imgur.com/VaDIiRc.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/f71WkHG.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/uO3llNs.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/FQBSBHm.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/AjFm05o.jpg

    As you can see a single box can be used to make a large amount of terrain and there are some beautiful parts within the set. The minis should provide a good sense of scale despite my lack of skill as a photographer. I have glued the parts of the individual buildings as I didn't want to rely on the connectors to hold without glue, nor spend a while filling down some of the holes to make the connectors fit more easily. The fact that the holes for the connectors and sometimes the connectors themselves are visible can be a problem for some, but in most cases they can be easily disguised, by putting them on the inside (not always possible depending on what you are building due to space constraints when using all the connectors in one side), as the connectors fill the holes and leave only a slight depression on the opposite side that you can easily cover with greenstuff or with some decorations. For covering connectors on the outside it can get trickier as you would need larger decorations to cover everything, but it is still feasible.

    I think the issues that Mantic's design has are mostly the issues that you see with modular designs, as in the attempt to provide versatility, you end up losing some things in the process. Like always it is a trade between versatility and the ability to go together seamlessly.

    Once I get some more space for my terrain, I am thinking about getting 1 or 2 additional military compound boxes, to either build a larger fortification or several small fortified buildings.

    My blog on writing that I update from time to time:
    https://greenscorpionbooks.wordpress.com/

  • Grumpy Gnome

    Here is a good video, showing among other things how to use Archon D&L dungeon floor tiles to make roofs for Archon Rampart Kazumi Temple buildings.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YeRSDC6GU0

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • BF

    Personally I would like to see WGA try their hand at doing some plastic Aztec / Incan / Mayan buildings in plastic.  My platforms and pyramid need some normal size buildings to set them off.  These tend to be quite simple structures and I recon you could make them modular so they can make loads of different buildings.

  • JTam

    @Brendan Flynn 

    WGA would certainly have the corner on that market with a set like that.  

    Throw in some fantasy Lizardmen glyphs you can (or not) glue on in the set and start winning.

    Also has potential utility in a Necromunda Ash Wastes setting or similar.

  • M

    honestly, those might work.. they could be similar to the renedra outbuildings kits. 4 walls and a roof. with the right design, you might even be able to do 2 walls and 1/2 the roof per sprue, with a few accessories, and then just pack 2 or 4 sprues into a box.

    Aztec housing was adobe with tatched roofs

    Mayan housing was similar, using a form of adobe with a thatched roof, but they tended towards oval:

     

    honestly the one i'd go for are the Inca, who built using stone block walls. this would make it easier to use in other settings, plus could be used as higher social class buildings in the aztec/maya societies.

    plus with the stone pattern you could do the "2 sprues for a building" thing, and include a panel to fill the extra door that would result.

     

    note that while the image i found is of a two floor building, most of the Inca houses seem to have been single storey affairs simialr in size and playout to the aztec building image.

  • MD

    As far as the Warlord kit being usable for earlier than 17th Century...

    Detail of Roman-Era Stonework, Antonian (Licinian) Baths, … | Flickr

    Antonian Baths, 2nd Century BCE.

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