Multiple Warsaw Pact Nations Combi Kit


  • @Grumpy Gnome started a great thread on "Cold Warriors" here.  

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/44387/suggested-new-range-cold-warriors

     

    BattleFront's Team Yankee "Red Dawn" Expansion is *Mugatu* "So Hot right now!"

     

    This amazing project for Cold War Bolt Action is floating around:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/boltaction/comments/zv4yav/bolt_action_cold_war_new_version_available/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

     

    Long story short....  Man some Cold War 28mm plastics would be awesome.

    It occured to me recently that there is a great deal of similarity between the uniforms and equipment of the various Warsaw Pact Nations.

    Seems to me a single kit could make two or three of the above. 

    One course of action would be a Polish/Hungarian kit and a second Romanian/Czechoslovakian kit.  

    Alternatively maybe a Polish/Hungarian kit and sell Romanian and Czechoslovakian upgrade sprues. 

    Alternatively maybe a Polish/Hungarian kit and sell Romanian and Czechoslovakian STLs.  

    Lots of ways to slice the pie but leverage the commonality in uniforms and helmets.  

     



  • You would need at least one or two rogatywka heads for the Poles 


  • There's potential RPG sales here too. Twilight: 2000 is undergoing a small revival, plus anything set in the 80's (earlier than that it's different enough to need other kits).


  • Also useful for Stalker/Metro/Zona Alfa style games, if it includes some gasmask head options.

     


  • @Mark Dewis 

    Equipment and uniforms didn't change much from the '60s through '80s for either side really.  


  • Side note these Under Fire Miniatures 28mm NVA are amazing.  This is how to do it right:

    I need to pick some of these up.  Buy now or cry later sometimes.

    I didn't add East Germans to the above combo kit matrix as the sleeve pockets and distinct helmets mean they probably need their own kit.  As the best fighting force in the Warsaw pact they deserve it anyway.  


  • @JTam on the NATO side the biggest visual difference was probably the introduction of the PASGT helmet and vest in the early 80's. 

    But yeah, on the Soviet side the gear is much the same throughout. At 28mm scale (and to honest at almost any miniatures scale) the AK-47, AKM and AK-74 are indistinguishable. The latter's polymer magazines and furniture are painting matters, not sculpting ones.


  • A Cold War Soviet kit should have AKMs and AK-74s as they are fairly distinctive from each other if you know what you are looking for.  Large compensator and straighter, slab side magazines on the 74.  The wood furniture is slightly different as well... groove on the buttstock on the 74.  Triangle folders are AK-74S only.  Underfolders are AKMS only.  

    But the Warsaw Pact Nations pretty much stuck to 7.62x39 (AKM variants) the whole time.  The Polish and Romanians only came out with 5.45 weapons (Not licensed AK-74s, homegrown solutions in 5.45) really late in the game.  Pretty much just in time for the collapse.  


  • @JTam are you saying you can identify which rifle those Under Fire Miniatures minis are carrying just from the sculpts? Including calibre?


  • @Mark Dewis 

    Sure.  

    The big give aways are the muzzle device and the magazines.  

    The MPi-KM (AKM equivalent/7.62x39) weapons have the tiny slant brakes and "ribbed" "banana" curved magazines.

    The MPi-K74 has a much larger and complex compensator and straighter, slab-sided magazines.

    Unlike some other countries both their 7.62x39 and 5.45 weapons use the same buttstocks.  This is also a good indicator with some of the other countries.  

    (Note the "banana" curve of the 7.62 magazines and the relatively straight 5.45 magazines).

    It's worth noting the Germans didn't start producing 5.45 weapons until 1985 so not too many got fielded before the collapse/reunification.

     


  • Under Fire Miniatures did a good job modeling the differences:

    NVA Soldier with a 7.62x39 MPi-KM.

    Soviet Soldier with a 5.45 AKS-74.  

    Note the differences between magazines and muzzle devices.

    Note they even modeled the horizontal groove on the buttstock.  This was only on the 5.45 weapons.  

     

     

     

    Great attention to detail.


  • Now is the is an AKM close enough to stand in for an AK74 for most people?  Probably. 

    It's annoying if you actually know the weapons though.

    But again, I don't think it's much of an issue.  The Warsaw Pact minis should have 7.62x39 weapons as that covers almost the entirety of the Cold War for them.  The Soviets should probably have both 5.45 and 7.62x29 weapons included.  If I HAD to choose I would put in the 5.45 as that's Team Yankee/Red Dawn time frame.



  • @JTam Nice  very nice detailing.


  • @JTam I do not recall ever losing my helmet band...

    I missed this thread continuing, so my apologies for the late reply. 

    And yes@Mark Dewis I quite agree with@JTam . My memory is not what it used to be but back in the 20th Century I too could spot those little cosmetic details in the various AKs for SPOT reports... if you pardon the poorly executed pun. Those little details were bread and butter for serving US Infantry studying OPFOR, ie opposing forces, intelligence. 

    Edit: I suppose this mini is more representative of me... I got into bother on my first field deployment after reaching my unit in Berlin by cannibalizing part of our track’s camo net to make camo for my helmet and putting on camo facepaint when others had not... as well as suggesting to the Platoon Leader that we should do more patrols... despite being in a new private in heavy mortar platoon, earning myself a Rambo related nickname from the members of my platoon. And wow, thinking back. I sure did hate wearing that pro-mask carrier on my hip.


  • @Grumpy Gnome 

    Good point on missing a kevlar band.  Strange they missed that when they got so much else right.  I suppose you could paint it on.

    It's funny, when I give a block on the "SPOT/SALUTE" report I always tell the Soldiers to report "AK type weapons" or "rifles" if they don't know what they are looking at.  AKMs vs. AK74s is going to make the S2 folks reach very different conclusions.  If you don't know the exact type of equipment go generic, don't make sh*t up.

    When I was the 101st we used to put on camouflage face paint religiously.  In mech land less so.  The UCP ACUs basically ended face paint in the Army.  (Surprising common sense there: why wear camouflage face paint while wearing the worst "camouflage" uniform in the history of man).  Face paint is making a revival with the OCP uniform and the pivot to the peer fight.  

    Amazingly the new vibrant "foliage green" semi MOLLE pro mask carrier is actually crappier to wear than the old pro mask carrier.  


  • I grew to absolutely loathe facepaint as the years went on. The priority of NBC may have receded in the War on Terror period but I suspect it will be returning, like the facepaint, with near peer conflict emphasis. A shame it sounds like they did not make it more comfortable to carry.


  • @Grumpy Gnome 

    You would wear face paint for 30 days straight...  And when you came out of the field your eyebrows would still be green for 3 days after.


  • @Grumpy Gnome 

    The joke was they changed "NBC" to "CBRN" as they got tired of the "NBC stands for Nobody Cares" jibes.


  • @JTam pretty much. yes the different AK generations have distinctive features IRL. but by the time you shrink them down to 28mm semi-heroic scale, most of those differences vanish or become minor surface texture stuff that often won't show through paint or even be discernable at tabletop veiwing distance. so long as it looks like an AK in profile it can stand in for pretty much all of them. (and that is a pretty wide family of weapons)

    the same goes for a lot of the uniform details.. the pouches being 3 cell instead of 4 cell or rectangular buckle instead of open buckle, most of those details won't be visible either. helmets might, though i honestly can't see what makes the romanian helmet distinctive from the russian one.. they look pretty much the same to me. but it is easy enough to include some extra heads with alternate helmets. you'd be doing that anyway, with helmet, soft cap, and bare head options minimum. possibly also gasmask ones.

    though were gas masks issued for use seperate from the full CBRN suits? it was my understanding that once the dangers of nuclear warfare were realized, and the development of skin absorbtion nerve agents, that NBC protection moves to full body suits rather than just gas masks.

    gas mask choice might be tricky too.. since that has changed over the decades. the GP-4u ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP-4u ) is the one that tends to get a lot of attention because of S.T.A..L.K.E.R., used between the 50's and 70's, but that hose to the air filter would be hard to model on a modular head. the GP-5 was in use between the 60's and 90's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP-5_gas_mask while the PMK is the current one ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMK_gas_mask )

  • During the late 80’s and 90’s I recall carrying a protective mask much of the time, even at points I was not wearing LBE... but having access to a MOPP suit only at certain times, with it being generally being attached to my rucksack. 

    And I recall Warsaw Pact troops carrying pro-masks in various pouches/satchels with their LBE but not MOPP suits. 

    I think it was 9 seconds to get the mask on, if I remember correctly, and we trained on that regularly but we knew the masks alone offered limited protection from the nerve agents we expected. 

    But it was over 20 years ago now and it is a bit hazy. 

    It is surprising what little details can draw the attention of the subconscious and just look “off” even on a 28mm mini. Things like untucked laces, incorrect canteens, missing helmet bands. I mean, notice how quick I was to spot the helmet band on the image@JTam  referenced for me. A Kevlar without a helmet band says Marine to me. Yet I can also see the little slits in the helmet camouflage cover that helps me to see it has a helmet cover. Those slits are a pretty tiny detail you may not consciously notice them at the “arms length” tabletop gaming range but you may see them on a subconscious level.

    And they matter to me when I am painting, photographing and displaying the mini.

    Edit: I wanted to add, I made a bit of a jump to illustrate my story but the camo on the helmet I chose to reflect how I used to look appears to have strips of burlap on the helmet rather than the plastic camouflage netting I cut up from my M106’s camo net. It is a tiny detail but the kind of thing I.. and I suspect@JTam  and@Battle Specter to notice. 

    So mine was more like the soldier on the left than the one on the right, who has added the burlap strips giving the “shaggy, long hair” look.

    Also, note the promask(protective mask, we were strongly discouraged from saying gasmask) bag on his left hip. It is the big, faded cotton bag/satchel that stands out from the nylon ALICE LBE (load bearing equipment, also called webbing or webgear). It has a strap that goes around the inner thigh (this is why I did not fuss the leg straps being on the ooh-rah minis) to keep the pouch from bouncing too much on the hip when running. Some guys tried to be clever and replace their promask with other things during deployment, such as extra MRE bits or a poncho liner but sharp NCOs would generally catch them out and there would be hell to pay.  And yes.... I was a rather demanding, pain-in-the-ass Infantry Staff Sergeant back in the day but my troops generally did very well on deployment, in training exercises and in personal assessments.

    Little details like this catch my eye and I am not the most observent person out there. I was admittedly looking at how berets were shaped, what unit badges/patches were worn, whether laces were tucked or not at a recent funeral I attended for a friend of mine in the German military. To me, details like these are an important part of military professionalism.


  • @Grumpy Gnome 

    I think people tend to underestimate what a good sculpture can show in 28mm. 

    As you mentioned you can see the one inch foliage slits in that one mini's helmet cover. 

    You can clearly see the ribbing on the below mini's magazine and handguards.  You can actually see the rib on his A2 flash suppressor!

    That certainly looks like burlap strips.  And definitely isn't camo net.  

    There are units/individuals running around the US Army using chunks of camo net on their helmets as we speak.  It's light, doesn't stick up too far off the head,  relatively effective, and IR negating.  I haven't seen burlap strips on a US Army helmet in decades.  Although I ran into a Canadian Soldier two months ago with burlap strips on his.  


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