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Sneak Peek: What's Behind the Curtain?

  • Grumpy Gnome

    @Mark Dewis While that may be the case there has been more news recently regarding STLs than plastics and right or wrong some folks are getting the impression that WGA is focusing on STLs right now. You can see that in the comments on Dakka Dakka pretty clearly. 

    Personally I do not think WGA is avoiding development work on plastics while focusing on STLs but I understand how some folks might get confused and think that given how much more vocal WGA has been of late regarding STLs. 

    And while some folks like STLs because they intend to use them others actually dislike STLs in general, not just WGA STLs because they reflect work put into something they themselves will not personally ever use. I am in neither of those groups but I understand both.

    The WGA rep on Dakka Dakka is making a decent effort to deal with this but what WGA really needs is more news on the plastics. In particular explaining in detail why some sets are taking so long.

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • MD

    I mean, yes, I'd like more news on upcoming plastics too. 

    But on the other hand we have the release schedule (which we did not have this time last year). That does save them a lot of posts. And has shown just how glacial the production process usually is. 

    The large number of posts on digital really just shows how fast content can be pumped out without the plastic production line. Commercially, it's paying for itself, so instead of people thinking that it's imposing on the sculpting assets, it's much more likely to be allowing WGA to employ their sculptors full time, or hire more.

  • Battle Specter

    @Grumpy Gnome I think you make a good point. Honestly, I do believe that .stls are the future for a whole host of reasons. First being cost to produce. Without the need for tooling, you can crank out a ton of stuff for comparatively little coin. Also, a larger and larger percentage of the community has their own printers, and that number will only increase and not decrease. There will still be a market for plastics moving forward, but that will shrink as time goes on. Getting into the .stl game now is a very smart move.

    I also don't think this is taking from their production of plastics. My guess is a lot of these are conceptual works that were backseated for other stuff, and are now going to see the light of day because there is an .stl market. Imagine how many things GW leaves on the cutting room floor that we would love to have on our table tops, but for one reason or another they decide to just delete it or dump it altogether. Same with Warlord, or any of the other big boys in the room. Hell, my biggest single miniature purchase was .stl files and I paid a friend to print them for me (80 minis in a shot- it was awesome). Recently, I FINALLY got my Hardsuits in .stl form. Another friend is doing some masters up for me as well as a review piece.

    It's the future, and the faster a company embraces that fact, the better they position themselves to make the transition. This, in my opnion, will be what kills GW in the long term- their unwillingness to embrace 3D printing at home. They could turn that around, and the community would embrace it. WGA is making a solid move I think, and getting into a market that is only growing.

    That being said- I'd really appreciate some .stls or purchased printed torsos and shoulder pads for the Iron Core line. Heck, any of the sets that have spare bits. This would only increase the value of those sets, and WGA is poised to do it already (obviously, they have the files, just not relased that way).

    Mike Uher II
    Rambling Devil Podcast

  • Grumpy Gnome

    @Battle Specter 3d printing will undoubtedly continue to grow. And that thought is part of what is driving some folks to be concerned that they are, or will be, losing out as physical plastic kit customers. 

    A fear best allayed with more communication from WGA. Many customers like reassurances.

     

    @Mark Dewis The schedule is nice. WGA has been more transparent about projects than other companies... and reaped benefits from that. But there have been times where the schedule was not updated, as admitted by WGA. And  some of us do wonder what the delays are being caused by in kits that were announced quite some time ago. 

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • GM

    @Grumpy Gnome I `m  convinced that STL`s will eventually be the way of the world and aide in Plastics designs also what I`m really browned off about is these.

     When this started I said don`t make the Plastic community second best and watch your excellent rep. I know teething problems occur. However I wanted to try out this print service and I `d been tempted by the Afghans, the farm animals , the Cargo pallets and the excellent  Security Robots for death field.  Afghans are not yet sorted for us, the farm animals are 1/32 Britians scale, the pallets 1/48th scale. The security robots ordered 18th have not arrived and 3 e-mails remain unanswered . Add to this the Beast at £20 has the wrong wagon and many more teething problems, I wonder whats going on?

    The trouble is you have ended up with a multi level playing field that is in no way equal. People who buy all the STL`s,  everyone of them can`t all print every item. Only some items are available to the Print Company to be printed, making the people with Printers an elite class. The files that can be  bought as printed are not all correct scale and I know demand was great but they can answer an Email.

     Printing is the way of the future I can see the benefits, but please let it be for all of us not just a few, add all items to STL`s and Print , tidy up the scales so everyone benefits in what is actually good products, or so  they seem.

  • NA

    Shield Wall.

  • Caratacus

    Never mind that we've already catered for the McBride artwork in the Goblins box (which was purposefully created to make a better version of the Wargames Factory Orc set), let's just reiterate them and make them slightly bigger and better-armoured. They'll never notice and think it's a brand-new idea!

    The Classic Fantasy line is fast becoming a byword for 'creativity vacuum'. All I can say is that at least it's just an STL and they're not wasting additional resources making a full box of those.

    But those I like! Presumably one of the upcoming Decline and Fall Army Builder sets? I thought they looked like Romans given the Oval shields, but given they are barefoot with varying levels of tunic and trousers I'm wondering if they're meant to be the Germanic Warriors and there are some round shields being used by the warriors in the middle whose shields are obscured? Or, given that they most heavily resemble the Irish, perhaps there's going to be an Irish Army Builder box?

    I like the idea of forming them all up in a shieldwall for those sets, for those who want a more disciplined-looking battleline for mass-battle games, with the multipart boxes being more suited to skirmish games. I'm looking forward to seeing these chaps arrive!

     

    And regarding WA's new obsession with Digital, I honestly really hope STLs are not the future. Give me plastic boxes I can pick up in my local hobby shop and support local High Street businesses any day. WA need to get back to the medium by which they gained their original Legion of fans. Fine, release a few things for Atlantic Digital every so often, but they shouldn't do so at the expense of making fewer plastic box sets. It's becoming like GW with their favourite factions, and Warlord with their favourite games.

  • Blutze

    Huh, funny. The orcs have a banner, but no musician. The goblins are the other way around.

  • William Redford

    @Caratacus the problem with that shieldwall though is you can only acheive it to that level if you dont put them on a base, and just leave them on the surfboard puddle bases. 

    It hadnt occured to me that that pic might be an army builder. But I believe you are right. That will be a set I pick up. Will try to fantasy them up some though. 

    I agree on the digital. I dont fault them for it, I hope they make money and the people who like it are getting good stuff. But... its really not for me. There have been a couple things on the print shop that I have liked... but everytime I think of ordering I weight the shipping cost vs what I am actually ordering, and look at what I can buy isnt what the people who print can do. I wouldnt be getting pieces that I can assemble and customize, but rather  full minis with parts that have been chosen for me...  I try not to be negative which is a big reason I dont post on these boards as much as I used to. 

    I did vote for the March theme... Women.  

  • MD

    @Caratacus 

    I'm really not seeing anything that's causing the plastic production line to slow down. 

    2022: Horses, Bases, Spacenam, Boxers, Aztecs, Conquistadores, Cannon Fodder 2, Bulldogs, Goths, Panzer Lehr. The two WGA boxes from the 02 Hundred game sprues were not released in 2022 but you could get 02 Hundred - count that as a 2022 or 2023 one as you see fit.

    2021: Italians, Lizardmen, Goblins, Cannon Fodder, WW1/2 French, Late Romans, PanzerJaeger, Prussian Reserve, British Riflemen, Partisans.

    If anything, what's slowing down the announced plastic production schedule is... new plastic. Ten kits were released in 2021, 10-12 were released in 2022 (depending on how you count 02 Hundred). 2022 suffered quite a few delays due to relocating the production to the USA as well. 

    We will have the WGA Commando and German Sentry boxes very soon. WW1 British should be next. I didn't count Ooh-Rah, Harvesters or the Ogres as 2022 as they aren't in all warehouses as yet, but they either count as another three for 2022 or make the start of 2023 a very healthy 5 kits (counting the Commandos and Sentries as 2023 kits).

    There's 41 projects on the release schedule. WGA have managed to release roughly one box kit per month in three years of production, which is an extraordinary rate. I do not expect that to drop - it's more likely to pick up a bit now they've sorted out the move - but it's going to take YEARS for all those to reach sales, and the pipeline will always need new product.  

  • Caratacus

    @William Redford You could achieve the shieldwall if you put the figures on 20mm/25mm square bases (whichever one fits the figures the best) or in particular if you put them on rectangular multibases, like the ones Renedra make, and resolve casualties with number counters.

     

  • GM

    @William Redford Hi stanger missed you happy 2023 Geoff and Eileen.

  • William Redford

    @Mark Dewis Thats true... but... If we look at the news and articles... of the last 12, only 1 had anything to do with plastics and that was on 12/2... and was in regards to a sale on the horses.. the last actual news on a plastics set was 11/16 that the British had completed tooling, 15 news stories ago. I understand that the digital news is quicker to relay, but if the last 15 articles that have come out over the last 3 months have been all about digital releases, and the last real article about a platic production was 11/16, (it is 1/18 today) it certainly feels like the digital has become what the company is about. Whether that is true or not.

  • William Redford

    Dad Joke: We havent gotten any plastic news since last year!!! ;)

  • MD

    @William Redford 

    Ehhh... obviously with 11+ digital sets being released every month they're going to swamp the news feed. Counting the number of articles obscures the frequency of plastic news, which hasn't actually dropped (one or two a month). We've often had not much more than shipping progress reports for a month or two.

    There was a Facebook post today from WGA that confirmed digital has no negative effect on production, and confirms my guess that the four staff sculptors can produce work in excess of the production line capacity. The extra income from digital may in fact help to speed up production, if they can get the money for more machines. 

  • William Redford

    @Mark Dewis I dont disagree. My point was more along with @Grumpy Gnome 's in that it can be perceived that way. Some dont Facrbook... i do... but for those that dont and come to the manufacturer's website and see that ALL of the news is soley focused on digital and the last talk of plastic was 11/16, then what would the perception be? Right or wrong, good or bad. In october there was a lot of talk about plastics, then digital was announced and nothing more on plastics. The timing and news just makes it seem that the plastcs are on the back burner. Wargames Atlantic can say that plastics are still full steam, but until we get some kind of news on plastics, then the perception will still be what it is. 

  • MD

    @William Redford it is what it is. I'm not sure if there's an easy fix - we're due to get a bunch of plastic posts for January - I think there's about four sets moving from pre-order to in stock (Ooh-Rah, Harvesters, Sentries and Commandos). These things tend to happen in bursts, likely to do with filling shipping pallets.

    I would note that many of the digital posts are what would have been "in development" posts six months ago. We know that sets in the plastic pipeline can see digital release; do you count the Female French Partisans as digital or a plastic preview? Really, it's both.

    But... you have a point. Maybe the news articles could be split between digital news and general/plastic news, so people uninterested in digital can relax and go back to a liesurely paced semi-monthly news feed? 😉

  • William Redford

    @Mark Dewis are the female partisans on the release schedule. If not and they only come out as digital, then I would count it as such. Even if we get a "we may do these in plastic". I remember talk of the female partisans but was it ever confirmed that they were coming? 

    I was kind of thinking of what you said about it not really being an easy fix, and your right. The only thing I could think of is having 2 different news pages. One for evil digital and one for glorious and righteous plastic ;) but it wouldn't solve the issue if you still had the digital getting updates ever week and the plastics getting updates 1/ month... so probably not worth it. 

  • JTam

    @William Redford 

    Female Resistance in plastic is still conjecture.  

    There are two WW2 "Mystery Sets" on the release schedule ..... One of which may or may not be female Resistance.  

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/84777/mystery-set-conjecture-january-2023

  • Grumpy Gnome

    The answer is to do some more promotion on new plastics. WGA is on the rightbtrack with the painting contest but what I think many customers want is some frothing from the company about plastics and an explanation on why some plastic kits appear to be languishing in development purgatory. 

    Transparency is great but it does create customer expectations. I suspect that is why many companies are less transparent on developmentbthan WGA has been. That transparency builds customer trust and enthusiasm (which raises sales) but when folks feel like they have gotten their hopes up only to be followed by a lack of (or limited) continuing development news then resentment and misunderstanding can grow. This is why marketing and social media needs to be managed. You see this all the time in Kickstarter campaigns. 

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • Caratacus

    I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons for many of WA's own plastic boxes being in development purgatory is because I'm pretty sure WA have taken on the duty of sculpting all the plastic components of this great-looking Blood and Plunder Starter Set, given they seem to be trying to become the US Renedra and sculpt everyone else's stuff as well as their own:

    The sprue design definitely looks like WA's.

     

    But I agree with the @Grumpy Gnome and @William Redford that they should do more to tell us that their plastic sets are being delayed for these reasons. We want to know what's happening and to be kept in the loop about these things and don't like to be kept in the dark, otherwise we'll gain the impression that WA have decided to choose Digital over plastic as @William Redford has said. If WA would do more to update the plastic Release Schedule and announce the state of play for plastic kits, we wouldn't be getting this frustrated.

  • MD

    Todays review of the year that was and discussion of what is to come addresses a LOT of the above.

    The Release Schedule has been replaced by the Vox Populi thing, and Female Partisans are indeed there alongside the other projects confirmed to be in the plastic pipeline. You want 'em quicker , get in some votes and order stuff with your vouchers.

    It looks like it was as I expected. The main thing delaying delivery of plastic kits was...

    Other plastic kits.

  • JTam

    Sneak Peak for 20 JAN 23:

    That's looks good.  

    This is interesting too:

    Cesarian Romans?  Giant Space Marines?  A collaboration with Rubicon?

  • MD

    Summary of the new order, replacing the previous release schedule:

    Death Fields:

    Cannon Fodder Command and Heavy Support

    Bulldogs Command and Heavy Support

    Les Grognard Raptor Cavalry

    Einherjar Command and Heavy Support

    Raumjäger Command and Heavy Support

     

    Moderns:

    Modern Operators

    Modern Insurgents

     

    First Empires:

    Trojan Chariot

    Thureophoroi

    New Kingdom Egyptians Spearmen

    New Kingdom Egyptians Archers

    Warring States Chariots

    Warring States Cavalry

    Warring States Infantry

     

    World Ablaze:

    Partisans (2): French Women

    Early War British

     

    Renaissance:

    Conquistador Cavalry

     

    Classic Fantasy:

    Halfling Cavalry

    Trolls

    Treemen

    Skeleton Cavalry

     

    Iron Core:

    Valkir

     

    The Great War:

    German Maxim Team

    Japanese

    Russians

    French Hotchkiss Team

     

    General Accoutrements:

    25mmx50mm Pill Bases

    Farm Animals

     

    Napoleon’s Wars:

    Camp Followers

    Old Guard Army Builder

    Russian Army Builder

    Napoleonic Spanish

     

    Imperial Conquests:

    Afghan Cavalry

    Franco-Prussian War: Bavarians

    Indian Mutiny Sepoys

    Indian Mutiny British (1)

    Indian Mutiny British (2)

     

    Decline and Fall:

    Late Roman Legionaries (2) Lorica Squamata

    Late Roman Legionaries (3) Unarmored

    Merovingian Franks

    Germanic Warrior Army Builder

    Late Roman Army Builder

  • Grumpy Gnome

    @Hudson Adams 

     

    Good to see the recent news posts, both the yearly report and the decision to move to the Vox Populi process! 👍

    This is exactly the kind of transparency I was talking about. Customers, in my opinion, love this kind thing. People want to know what is going on “behind the scenes.” All it costs is some time to decide what is safe to share, I do not expect 100% transparency in a competitive business environment, and some time to post the information online. And best to have it on the main website rather than just on social media platforms that not everyone is a part of.

    The decision to have the 5 US Dollar fee on the votes with the money going into a voucher seems a good way to deal with the potential Boaty McBoatface issue some folks have been very vocal about in the past, including the historicals versus fantasy arguments.  

    On a personal note, in my opinion Vox Populi is something of an unfortunate martketing term right now with Elon Musk’s use of it in his management of Twitter.  I suspect some on here will disagree with me but I would be disingenuous if I did not mention my concern. 

    Anyway, that aside... a couple of good news releases that I think will serve WGA well overall. 

    And of course... an anticipated timeline for the Quar release would not go amiss as it now is no longer on the release schedule.... 😉

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • Caratacus

    Well on one hand I was not impressed when first reading the notion of WA charging for votes for your favourite sets, but on the other, allowing these vote payments to become vouchers for use on their site is a nice gesture and allows you to get a free box or two if you put enough votes in, either for another set on their online store or for the one(s) you vote for when they come out.

    However it's only a good idea to use it if you really want a particular set - currently I'm not fully interested in most of their upcoming sets. Only the Decline and Fall ones are of potential interest to me and I'm not going to commit to buying any of them until I can see the sprues and work out if they'd be worth buying for my British/Welsh (want to make sure they have enough Celtic moustache heads...). The only current set I'm drawn to is the Goths for their archer poses but they've just arrived here in Britain so I'm going to see if I can get one from one of my favourite model shops to support them and to get the box in hand rather than wait for a courier.

    Shame they've got rid of the old release schedule in order to facilitate this, because you can't actually see the state of development of any of the sets anymore, including whether they've now been fast-tracked, although perhaps they will be removed from Vox Populi when this happens.

  • Marc Nelson Jr.

    @Mark Dewis Forgive me if I missed it, but is there an explanation somewhere of what is in these potential boxes?  i.e. are the Halfling Cavalry mounted on ponies or dogs or what? What is an "Army Builder"?

    I want to cast some votes, but I would like to know what I am voting for. :)

  • Lord Marcus

    @Marc Nelson Jr. Army builders are large number of models / lower amount of options and poses. See the prussian reserve kit for an example.

  • NA

    Death Fields heavy support.

  • JTam

    Sneak Peak for 27 JAN 23:

    This is plastic!?!  Hallelujah.  

    Looks like just maybe, some sweet, sweet Traitor Guard.  

  • Grumpy Gnome

    I will admit I some how missed the text saying they were plastic. My mistake, good on WGA to make that clear.

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • Caratacus

    @JTam Good to see a plastic teaser at last!

    Hmm, if it wasn't for those modern-ish shoes I would have thought it was something for Dark Ages (hey, a man can dream). But we already have a form of rabble in Death Fields in the form of the Cannon Fodder, so I don't know what these are meant to represent.

    I don't know if they're meant to be an expansion of that Chaos Cultist-y team originally made for WA Digital (The Damned, or something similar?), as they said that some Digital kits would be expanded into full-on boxes.

    Or perhaps something for Iron-Core, like the Soviet-themed Protectorate? Perhaps the Mark Mondragon aficionados  @Colin Brinkley @Frank Reischmann and @Battle Specter could enlighten us?

  • MD

    @Caratacus proportions seem wrong for Iron-Core. The bits shown don't really match up with The Damned either - they have heavier armoured boots with articulations and looser trousers:

    I would say it's a new faction. Clearly they're fighting with damaged gear, so maybe some kind of hard luck heroes? Cannon Fodder are meant to be failures being thrown in as a last attempt at getting a return on them, and Rebel Yell are meant to be perennial losers (although I get the impression they're more like a team that wins matches but never makes the finals...) but there is scope for a faction that's *successful* despite being underfunded. 

    Or who are techno-zombies.

  • JTam

    Sneak peak from 3 FEB 23;

     For reference the sneak peak from last Friday:

     

    Huh.  The bracers, or giant turn backs on the sleeve look a little weird.  I don't really get the long rectangular pouches with the single button at the waist either...  I get an "impression" of the Seven Years War for some reason.

    Weapon at left looks shotgunish.  The center weapon AKish.

    Also in the Friday email:

  • Grumpy Gnome

    Slowing down to catch up and then speed up...  any slow down is going to cause some talking online. Good PR and community engagement coukd help mitigate any ensuing drama as there will certainly be some worried that plastics are falling to the wayside for digital. 

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • NA

    The muzzle device on the AK looking thing is based on an AK-74 break, something only really seen in Russia, East Germany, Poland, and Romania (with a few others that are mostly sporting stuff). Guy in the left looks like he has a pump shotgun (tube magazine). I'd have said "Guns of the South Confederates", but we've already got Rebel Yell. I suspect it's a Death Fields set due to the odd combonation of new(ish) guns and old uniforms.

  • M

    the previews look to be made from the same image just chopped. they spliced together super easy.

    whatever they end up being, the mix of worn out clothes and russian style weapons means they'll probably be popular with gamers doing stuff like Zona Alfa, or Post-apoc games.they'd probably make good Metro2033 figures.
  • John Wilson

    @Mithril2098 They would indeed, stick some Soviet helmets heads on and you have the Reds, stick some WW2 German heads on and you have the Reich etc.

    I'm hoping for gasmask heads to round these out.

     

  • Grumpy Gnome

    As for the trooper with what looks like an AK... that trigger discipline, or rather lack thereof, is going to end in tears at some point. 

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • JTam

    @Grumpy Gnome 

    Maybe he's actively shooting?

    Regardless adds to the rabble vibe.

    Or...TRAITOR vibe.....

     

  • JTam

    @Nanashi Anon 

    We talked a bit about AK47/AKM/AK74 muzzle devices here:

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/84943/multiple-warsaw-pact-nations-combi-kit

    But I wouldn't read too much into it. The weapon is AKish... no more or no less. 

    (Sidenote: You know who likes to put 74 style compensators on 7.62x39 guns?  Kyber Pass gunsmiths).  

    Or plot twist it's "Type 81ish"...

    "The Death Fields PLA Team is making a big splash, recently completely humiliating the previous 'super' team with the power of balloons."

     

    @Grumpy Gnome 

    Did you see the "Berlin Brigade" minis in the above linked thread?

     

  • Grumpy Gnome

    @JTam I had missed that the thread had continued, sorry, I am up to speed now.

    Sure, that booger hook can reflect poorly disciplined troops... we talked about it before and I am much more uptight about it than you are. It is the old firearms instructor in me, damn near impossible to shake. It is like a visual form of the discomfort the sound of fingernails on a chalkboard causes. I am familiar with far too many folks having negligent discharges due to poor trigger discipline and muzzle awareness. 

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • Bill Thomas

    Anything "AK-ish" gets my vote 🤣

    And yes, for Zona Alfa reasons...

    “Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.”

  • GM

    @JTam That would make all my dreams come true if that was right.

  • GM

    @Bill Thomas Ditto.😉

  • MD

    A core based on Stalingrad and Leningrad defenders is my current guess. Thus the battered look.

    Za Rodina! (also a possible faction name...)

  • JTam

    Seriously though....

    What is this?

  • Grumpy Gnome

    @JTam I am guessing a fictional magazine pouch. It looks a little like a single cell Condor AK mag pouch. 

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • JTam

    @Grumpy Gnome 

    It looks a little like a trifold toiletry kit.....

    Or a pipe tobacco pouch with snap....

     

  • MD

    I dunno. It's got the look of folded cloth more than a pouch for me. Maybe a forage cap or a cape?

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