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Kitbashing kits and character creation kit

  • RN

    Bit of a long post

    So of all the aspects of the miniatures hobby, the one I love the most is building minis from kits.  I love combing kits, mixing things up, but I also just love making choices about what arms and head to apply to a particular model and how to position those on the model.  My favorite kits of all time are the frostgrave wizards kits (1 and 2) and the frostgrave knights kit because they allow for so many interesting possibilites in terms of building characters.  So far I have bough six wizard kits and two knight kits.  When Whizkids annouced they were making kits for DnD I was so pumped only to find out that they are only doing mutlipart kits for orcs and goblins and such and even then it looks like the possibilites are limited and player characters will only have one body with and limited heads and arms to switch out.

    Which brings me to the point of this post.  I know we all wants kits from WA because they actually asked us once which ones we would like to see.   I guess what I would love to see is player character kits to be used with rpgs, wargames and just for giggles (which is what I do with my minis).  The idea would be thus:

    Human kits would be seperated into 2 kits. 

    Martial kits and Spellcasting kits. 

    Each kit would have six bodies 3 male/3 female and only 2 or 3 sprues and charge the same as a battle kit

    The martial kit would

    2 light armor male/female

    2 heavy armor male/female

    2 medium armor male/female

    The spell kit would have

    4 no armor  male/female

    2 light armor male/female

    The arms on both kits would be interchangable and include all manner of weapons, spell effects and other items like instraments for bards staffs for druids etc and of course a ton of heads (give them thier own sprue) all of which could interchange with WA other lines.

    Anyway that is my dream.  Thoughts?  Am I alone in wanting this sort of thing?  Is there demand for this?  Or am I just a niche in a niche?

  • E

    Sounds like a great idea, but if you're saying six bodies in total, I doubt anyone else would buy it.

  • david phillips

    I'd probably by this with more torsos than you are describing

  • RN

    6 bodies per sprue 2-4 sprues per box so either 12 to 24 characters/figures total.  Lower figure total because of more arm head options on each sprue

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  • RN

    @david phillips  I want more too but trying to be realistic 

  • Araden Kwyll

    Loving the premise.
    Some doubts on the feasibility.

    https://www.facebook.com/CodexAraden

  • Yronimos Whateley

    Having seen the Frostgrave Wizard and Knight kits, loved them, and thought much the same thing about a character creation kit, I think the original poster is probably being pretty realistic about this:  you get a trade-off in something like this in terms of how many cool customizable bits can be included on a sprue, vs. how many bodies can be included on the sprue.

    For an RPG character creation kit (which is very different from a wargame army-builder thing), I think I'd rather err on the side of cool bits (heads, weapons, accessories) than bodies, and that's exactly what was done with those specific Frostgrave kits.

    For more bodies (and a smaller selection of equally cool bits), Northstar(?) also produces some kits for soldiers (male and female), cultists, and a few other factions, that work out to 20 minis per kit, compared to the 10 for the wizards (male and female) and knights for about the same price.

    For an RPG build-your-own character sprue, I'm thinking maybe 2-3 figures per sprue would be plenty enough - two boxes of three sprues (three sprues each of "armored" and "unarmored" characters) would be plenty enough to kit out a typical D&D party.

    So, with that in mind, maybe a different take on the OP's suggested kit:

    • "Male Human Sword" Sprue:  one fantasy plate armor, one fantasy chainmail, one fantasy scale mail, and an assortment of shields, one-handed, and two-handed "martial" weapons, and misc. gear (pouches, belt items, and the like).  I'd focus on fancier-looking, "heroic", unusual, and/or exotic shields and weapons, of the sort that rank-and-file fantasy figures wouldn't normally have (rank-and-file fantasy figures already come with plenty of common swords, spears, shortbows, and round shields.) Pauldroons/shoulder armor bits; the arms might ideall be covered in cloth sleeves, just to fit in with different costume styoes.  An assortment of bare and helmed heads in different styles.  This sprue by itself is suitable for making three characters of common "generic medieval European fantasy" human fighter/cleric archetypes.
    • "Male Human Sorcery" sprue:  one fantasy studded leather, one fantasy gambeson "cloth" armor, and one fantasy robe/cloak.  Bits would include a couple daggers, a shortsword, a scimitar/rapier, and a couple staves, spellbooks, wands, potions, talismans, and other accessories (pouches, belt items), two or three music instruments maybe.  Talismans might do double-duty as holy symbols/magic devices, and ornaments for staff-tops.  An assortment of bare heads, and heads with soft hats, caps, hoods, masks, and the like.  By itself, this sprue is suitable for three characters of the "generic medieval European fantasy" human spellcaster and rogue archetypes.
    • The two sprues together would further customize characters of different generic classes:  swashbucklers, bards, priests, rangers, and the like.  Perhaps an ideal kit would include one of each sprue, for six characters, but I don't know if the economics favor two of the same sprue per box?
    • The male figures will, apparently sell the best, as a starting place, but ideally there would also be female kits of the sort, assuming the demand is high enough to justify it.  (This experiment seems to have worked out for Northstar(?), as they've made kits for female wizards and warriors, and seem likely to keep producing these.)  The male kits can probably get away with only human male heads, but perhaps the female kits might benefit from at least a couple female elf heads.
    • Assuming the demand makes it practical, "expansion" accessory sprues might be available to add two or three additional costume styles for slightly different genres and more variety - maybe a wilderness sort of thing with torsos/legs suitable for barbarians, druids, and rangers, along with an assortment of, say, crossbows and bows, scythes and sickles, barbarian clubs, capes, backpacks, and that sort of thing.  I think an "evil" themed kit for necromancers might be popular enough, as might some more exotic themes (Arabian Nights, Samurais-and-Ninja, blackpowder guns with pirate and renaissance style bits, steampunk bits...) might also work for even more variety.
    • Most of the human bits would surely cross over with elf parts, which might be sourced from a more rank-and-file Elf army set (the heads, and any distinctive torsoes, capes, weaponry, etc.)  So, male and female elves (and half-elves) would be very easy to do!
    • Dwarfs and halflings might be more difficult to address, unless the dwarfs are proportioned to share parts with halflings or humans, one or the other; like elves, some basic bits can be sourced from the Halfling Militia kit and any future dwarf and halfling kits, with maybe an Accessory sprue and some creativekitbashing for variety.  (Because wargamers seem to be a bit less likely to buy female figures, and even female fantasy figures apparently have only a niche audience, it might be a bit harder to justify economically female halflings and dwarfs, though I'd certainly rather see them if possible!  Othewise, RPG players might best look to the "pre-generated" fantasy hero miniature market, with companies like Reaper and so on, for these sorts of characters.)

     

    I think such a thing would make a fantastic gift item for role-playing gamers, especially those just starting out in their first game:  give them their first set of dice, a character sheet, and a create-a-character kit, spend an afternoon as a group with Wacky Gloo assembling miniatures as part of the character generation process, and a newbie gamer's got just about everything they need to start their first game, except a player's guide, plus the player would have enough parts to make up to five other characters, more if any kitbashing is applied.  (Groups on my sort of budget can split a single kit or two between them, with most such groups having parts left over from sharing a kit for the GM to build an NPC or two....)

     

    Of course, I might be very wrong about the demand for larger numbers of figures in this sort of kit: 

    Is there really a market out there for a box of ten or twenty wizards at a time, with perhaps a limited selection of magic bits to arm them with?  There might be a solid customer base somewhere in wargaming for squads or platoons of War-Wizards, I suppose?

    Otherwise, create-a-character kits might best suit RPG gamers if they have only a few characters, but lots of cool bits to customize with.

  • RN

    @Yronimos Whateley I actually would love male and female kits but I was trying to be economical every single place I could be.  I also thought of different race kits as elves and tiflings could share a kit and halflind and gnome could share a kit and then dwarfs have their own.  Course this is all just idle speculation and the money in minis seems to be on the Wargames side of things.  Still I think it would be way fun and you could mix and match with other historical kits that would create endless possibilities.  And if I can't get adventurers I would still take a human warband kit in the classics fantasy line

  • Araden Kwyll

    @Yronimos Whateley 

    Random musings, with chance of wildly inaccurate forecasts.

    Gauging market is tough, in these times and economy.
    What used to be a no-brainer project - huge kits of similarly equipped soldiers for mass combat - now have to contend with lockdowns and a greater propensity for solo gaming with fewer models.

    I recall convos with producers from before pandemics: what used to be pure nonsense to them - "we cater for wargamers, not kitbashers" - is now becoming a new reality, with smaller warbands, conversions and upgrade sprues becoming more common.

    Wizard-only kits are a reality; perhaps not twenty-something strong kits.
    But Northstar showed us it was possible to create niche kits at affordable prices; styrene kits were still feasible without catering for mass combat and moving huge numbers of boxes and troops.

    So, considering what NS did with Wizards and Knights, more skirmish based adventurer kits might be doable.
    Question right now is: how well would female kits sell?
    Wargames tend to eschew them, because of limited use in historical armies.
    Roleplayers, on the other hand...

    Personally, I would focus on adding upgrade bits for existing kits, instead of reinventing the wheel.
    And I'd love to see a proper dedicated female adventurer kit, since Frostgrave dropped the ball a bit, with Female Soldiers II.

    https://www.facebook.com/CodexAraden

  • BVD

    @Robert Nelson

     

     

    Given we are talking the truer to life proportions of Historical Scale (since that’s is the scale everything WA does besides Death Fields is in), I think it would actually be smarter to divided them between male and female genders instead due to male and female proportions being different normally.

    Particularly since I am very sure a female adventurer set/sprue or two plus several upgrade sprues for them would sell great. Plus I don't know about the rest of  you but I don’t exactly want to see a more "manish” looking female minis that are designed as a compromise for the sake of compatible arm fitting especially for historical scale.

    Another and perhaps better way is to just do upgrade sprues for the Male adventures since there are plenty of suitable bodies for them out there already with more on the way (thank you 5000+ years of history😁) and instead focus on the female Adventures and maybe do 2 kits of them, one armored for knights and rangers and archers and one unarmored for spell casters, rogues and maybe barbarians (though I could see a female set that is just this last category being done as Amazons with their own spellcaster and archers poses plus stuff to use for VSF and/or Post Apoc).

    As to races, it depends on the ones you want to add. There are some races where due to body shape it would be wiser to do them separately (same reason for separating male humanoids from females humanoids) as an armed force and then do upgrades for them, then there are other races where a head swap and/or add on bit to a human body would get the job done just fine for most folks.

    Dwarfs, Halflings, Gnomes, Giants , Goblins, ogers, trolls and Kolbalds in their normal iconic forms all tragically fall into the former.

    However thing Orcs and  Elves, along with a few other exotic races like half beastmen (Human faced people with animal ears and maybe a tail like in anime) and huldrakin (an obscure scandivian fantasy) all can fall into this category neatly

    Horned Folk (Demons, Treiflings, Oni, etc.), full Beastmen, Winged Folk (Angels, Hawkmen, Tengu, etc.),  Fairies and some others race all have forms that vary from franchise to franchise or even from tribe to tribe in the same franchise  and could be done as head swaps for humans or different body shaped sets (or both).    

     

  • Yronimos Whateley

    @Brian Van De Walker "...I could see a female set that is just this last category being done as Amazons with their own spellcaster and archers poses plus stuff to use for VSF and/or Post Apoc..."

    You know, now that you mention that, a "Space Amazons" set, with fantasy/"historical" options, might be a popular Death Fields faction....  I'm going to steal that for the thread where someone asks for ideas for the next Death Fields set.

  • BVD

    @Yronimos Whateley

    I really think it should be the other way around and they should do it for fantasy primarily with Sci-Fic being an afterthought since the Female Cannon Fodder set is probably enough for most folks when it comes to females in Sci-Fic.

    Also there are tons of things in fantasy a good female barbarian set could cover thank you cheesy Hollywood and D&D (with elf head swaps and the right paint job they could be used for Dark, Forest, Sea, Desert and wild elf females).

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  • RA

    For elves a part to convert them to driders (With gigant spiders set).

  • Yronimos Whateley

    Now THAT is a fascinating idea, @Rondaros A'terac  !

    I've got to confess that I'm not really very excited about fantasy dwarves and elves under normal circumstances:  there are really so many already out there already, with Northstar's Oathmark line carrying some very nice Light and Heavy elf and dwarf infantry, and other companies already having the subject covered equally well in conventional terms, so I'd be more interested in an unconventional take on these Classic Fantasy no-brainers.

    I wouldn't normally see a reason to do anything more than an "Accessory Sprue" of elf heads and perhaps fantasy bow and sword arms, otherwise:  these could easily be added to e.g. the Dark Age Irish or Goths to easily cook up a quick-and-easy conentional Elf army.

    But some drider bits to combine with the giant spiders?  Now that's a different story altogether, and one that wouldn't take very much to do:  the spider legs and bodies are separate from the head/thorax bit, and that head/thorax bit would be all that would need to be replaced with a torso to attach the spider legs and abdomen, and elf arms and heads, to create driders.

    For that matter, that set of Fauns that Wargames Atlantic helped a third-party produce (I forgot about those - did those get dropped from WA's catalogue?) seems like it might provide some nice bits to build some unique spider-elf creatures from:  the upper bodies, arms and even the heads for the female and male fauns seem like they'd fit right in on a lower torso to mix with the spider kits.  So, three ways to do this might be:

    • Elf Boxed Set:  Some two-part elf bodies (hopefully in some unconventional costumes!) with elf heads and arms, and a few spider lower-torso bits for combination with the giant spider kits.  Or,
    • Elf-Spider Boxed Set:  faun upper bodies, heads, and selected arms, with giant spider abdomens and legs, with some new lower torso bits to hold them together, and some additional elfy heads and arms with bows and swords, might cover a drider kit, with some bits that can be kit-bashed onto Dark Ages Irish and Goths to make regular elves.  Or...
    • Elf Conversion Sprue:  Some elf and faun heads, faun upper torsos, archer/spear/sword arms, quivers, and lower-torso bits, which can be used with your choice of either the Giant Spider kit to create Elf-Spiders, or any historical kit to create elves (Elf conquistadors or Wild Elf Aztec Elf-tecs, anyone?  No?  Maybe it's just me?  Not even a kitbash onto Sepoy Uprising British infantry for elves recruited into the British Empire?  Alright, instead add those elf heads to some Dark Age Irish or Goth bodies for more conventional elves, and the unused bits from the same sprue can always be combined with Giant Spiders for Faun-Spiders, for a unique take on Classic Fantasy Darklands adventuring....)

     

    Personally, I can't help thinking that Darklands spider-fauns would seem right at home in Pan's Labyrinth or something, and would be a really cool fantasy faction!  Some bits to kitbash some Dark Elves to hang out with them would be icing on the cake....

    That's maybe a bit off-topic for a character creation kit, but very interesting food for thought....

  • William Ings

    Box kits to add some fantastical flair to historical ranges would be cool. Just skipping R&D on human fantasy factions and going with somthing like a parallel world theam.

    Somthing like the Les Grognards Command/Heavy Support kit. But with one or two mounts or scenery pieces instead of heavy weapons.

  • BVD

    @William Ings that’s an interesting idea with a lot to it, particularly for the armies not normally thought of (Warring States China, Persia, Aztecs, Afgahns, etc.). That said it does leave out female advetures, spell casters, and other things like that and I can see space for things like a "plain plate cuirass armor with pants and pull on boots bodies" army builder

    Also I do think a solid "frostgrave/DnD" adventurer human/normal humaniod line would be covered in 4 sets or even just 3 with an additional upgrade sprue:

    set 1. a male set 4 to 6 torsos set with one to two being plain plate cuirass armor with pants and pull on boots bodies for knights/fighters, two bodies in plain shirt with pants (could change this up and do shorts for one) and pull on boots bodies for archers and rogues/archer/monks, and one to two robed bodies for spellcasters/healers.  As mentioned earlier, for male adventurers it would also be easy to do them a customization sprue for the historical sets (so this is the set that does not need to be made).

    set 2. female version of above set maybe have some fun and replace the pants with skirts and mini skirts (would be different). This would have to be its own set unlike above.

    set 3. A box of classic Barbarians, basically all muscle guy torsos in loin cloths with fur trimmed boots. mix of stone/bone and metal melee weapons, a great sword,  maybe a  spear, maybe a musket or flintlock pistol for VSF, and maybe a couple big scrapped together Uzi style auto pistols that can be used along with the melee weapons for postapoc gaming. If the scrap auto pistols are added also add some gas masks as well as nomale barbarian heads.

    set 4. 4 to 6 Female barbarians per sprue  in bikinis/bare midriff out fits (which surprisingly could cover alot thank you cheesecake pushing entertainment media😆). Similar mix of stone and metal weapons as the barbarians with the addition of a stone or bone dagger, maybe a magic user staff, maybe add a bow or two or a crossbow, and maybe a couple VSF weapons like a cutlass and a rifle. Perhaps some female elf heads in addition to female barbarian heads, as well since this could actually cover a good number subjects on that front as well.

    Theoretically I suppose you could skip the male and female adventurer (or put them on hold) and just do the two barbarian sets since male adventurer could be covered by history sets with an upgrade sprue (even spellcasters) and the female barbarian could cover for everything but knights/armored warriors (though some people might complain about it for various  reasons if that all that is done).

  • William Ings

    @Brian Van De Walker I would include one or two robed/caped torsos and head options to cover any range of holymen, spell casters and nobles for the corresponding time period in what I would dub a Historical-Fantasy Command kit.

    Historical-Fantasy is also the safest (sales wise) way to market any all female historical kits in my opinion.

    P.S. Laser-Fantasy Barbarians and Amazon's have my vote.

  • BS

    @Brian Van De Walker Slightly off topic, but I believe Northstar said they're already working on female barbarians for their Frostgrave line.

  • Yronimos Whateley

    For the robes/capes/etc., I can't help thinking that one or two historical/fantasy "townsfolk" sets that could be kit-bashed into heroes (or which, better still, include some sword, mace, and other weapon options) might not be a bad idea.  I seem to recall that a "medieval civilian" option did well in last year's survey, too, so there seems to be some built-in market for this.

    Similarly, a robed monk/cultist set did well in that survey, with the monks and priests being a request I'm sure I've seen more than once for addition to the Conquistadors set. This would seem to make for a great base from which to build fantasy spellcasters!

    So, maybe there are ways to supply adventurer bodies indirectly through historical or historical/fantasy contexts, with interesting adventurer head and arm options to add to those bodies being the more important option to focus on here.

    Some great sources for generic historical/quasi-historical bodies to use as the foundation of a fantasy adventurer project might include:

    • a robed priest/cultist set (as seen in survey results)
    • a medieval townfolk set (as seen in survey results)
    • a generic, historical cuirass/trouser/boot footman set of some sort as suggested by Brian
    • the existing/upcoming WGA Dark Age Irish and dark Age Gothic sets, late Romans, Persians, etc.
    • existing and upcoming historical sets like the Afghans, conquistadors, Boxer Chinese, Egyptians, Warring States, etc.
    • generic medieval armored knights, Saxons, Normans, Vikings, etc.

     

    Really, historical model kits cover a great deal of generic male, human and human-sized elf fantasy adventurer ground - just add interesting heads, weapons and adventuring gear (backpacks, etc.)  It's not as satisfying as an all-in-one-box solution, but for variety, the available, upcoming, and possible historical options are hard to beat, and are a wheel that doesn't really need much re-invention.

    What's maybe much harder to come by in hard-plastic multi-part kits are things like...

    • Female adventurer bodies of any sort (Frostgrave Soldiers II and Wizards II are the best options I know of, followed up by the occasional specialty female ranger or amazon kit I've seen here or there.)
    • High concept, over-the-top, and exotic options are kind of tough to find, outside of dedicated RPG figures with little customization available.  Not a lot of variety out there, once you get off the beaten path of Warhammer/Warcraft pseudo-Tolkien fare, and historicals!  (I'd be looking at you, Cthulhu Dark Ages / Invictus investigators, if I could!  Very little available for scholars, alchemists, noble dilletantes, masked vigilantes, cultists and witches, artists, visionaries, necromancers, explorers, monks, bards, etc.)
      • There are a few classic muscle-bound barbarian archetype sets out there - Frostgrave Barbarians and Tribals are just a couple examples - but maybe a WGA boxed set of Schwarzneggeresque muscle-bound Cimmerian figures isn't a bad idea, to cover barvarians, cavemen, half-orcs, and the like.
      • So far, even historical sources for robes and such for priests, spellcasters and the like are hard to come by. (Frostgrave Wizards I & II and Cultists are the closest things I can think of, without customizing some Reaper Bones figures.)
    • Non-human options are limited:
      • Few options for dwarf, gnome, halfling, and other "little guy" adventurers, along with giant, half-ogre, and othr large adventurers; dwarves and elves provide most of the limited options available, and those cover very specific "high elf", "mountain dwarf", and (rarely) "dark elf" and "chaos dwarf" territory.  (If your character is Beardy McDwarfbeard of Axe-Clan Stone Mountain, and you're wearing chainmail, a norse-style helm, and an axe and round-shield, you're barely in luck, otherwise, it's slim pickings! Thank goodness WGA and now Mantic have added a few Halfling footman options!  Northstar seems to be making some nice Oathmark light Dwarf and Elf infantry, too, who look a little different from the usual elf fare.)
      • Cthulhu save us, there are very few options available for the increasingly popular Cyborg Ninja Pirate Furry fare that modern D&D seems to be running on.  I don't mind the limited options, but a few cat-people, fox-people, wolf-people, and other such options for that animal-people audience might be a successful product.  (I don't know how typical this is, but I think cat-people adventurers would sell better to women gamers I know, than human/elf/dwarf female adventurers would, so maybe any female fantasy miniature kit might benefit from a few cat-people, fox-people, or other non-human heads, with add-on tails?)

     

    Character heads are, perhaps, worth a little conversation here, because those are a different animal from generic historical kit heads, and maybe need a different skill set to do well:  historical figures are best designed, I expect, to blend into the background and not stand out too much in a mob of figures in the same uniform.  in contast, player characters are often at their best when they stand out from the crowd a bit:  a distinctive expression, eye patch or scar, broken nose, ear-rings, attractive or ugly face, eccentric hat or hair styel, etc. surely better serve a player character or distinctive NPC, than they do to a squad of town guards, mercenaries, army men, etc.!

    And I think the gist of where I'm going is that the character bodies/costumes are going to be the point that most of the compromises of a build-afantasy-adventurer kit would need to revolve around! The more distinctive bodies you try to include, the fewer weapons, heads, and accessories you can include... and when choosing the bodies, do you go with something safe and popular that could be sourced from historical kits instead, or go with something a little harder-to-find, and risk alienating anyone looking for an all-in-one solution that includes more generic, easy-to-find options?  I think maybe this sort of product might shine best when it focuses on distinctive, harder-to-find options like interesting faces and unusual costumes and gear, leaving the more generic stuff to historical kits.  (IMHO!)

     

    Anyway, sorry to muddy the waters, but maybe fantasy adventurer kits that focus on adventuring weapons and gear and interesting character heads that can be kitbashed onto your choice of historical figures, along with a few bodies in costumes that aren't easily sourced from historical products, might be a more successful way to approach the subject, than an all-in-one kit might be!

  • William Ings

    @Yronimos Whateley I know that ideas for Camp-Followers has been kicked around for a bit, but perhaps adding Historical-Fantasy bits to historic Camp-Follower or Partisan kits would be a a good way to increase the marketability of them.

    I think just a few bits would help turn your average field surgeon into Dr. Van Hellsing, a vicker I to exorcist or Dark Age wise-man into Merlin. If the kit comes with enough bits to upgrade a good part of their corresponding historical kits into monster hunters / adventures all the better. 

    It is in my opinion that hybrid kits are one of Wargames Atlantic's strong points. The more of them they make the more markets they can break into.

  • Yronimos Whateley

    I think I agree completely - the hybrid kits are a strong point, and with a significant number of popular items in last year's big survey being civilians, partisans, and e.g. medieval monks/cultists, that certainly seems like a great opportunity to add some adventurer/hero bits into the mix!

    • Sci-fi Civilians
    • Apocallyptic Survivors
    • Insurgent and Irregular Moderns
    • Hooded/Robed Monks/Cultists
    • Medieval European Peaasants/Townspeople

     

    Some of those would naturally lend themselves to modern/sci-fi hero types anyway (Apocalyptic Survivors and Insurgents would be expected to include modern weaponry, for example), but the rest are ripe for some creative use of additional bits to convert them to heroes, wizards, and the like.

     

  • BVD

    @Ben Saunders

    Really, but they are probably going to be in Northstar's heroic scale and will likely match the male barbarian set they already do when it comes costumes/uniforms/cloths (ie, ice age meets dark age in could weather clothing).  I am thinking more warm weather loin cloth (male) and bikini/bare midriff (female) barbarians, suitable for things jungle savages, chaos marauders, cavemen, and Conan the barbarian types (lots of stuff you can do with that).   

  • BVD

    @William Ings

    I am going to always vote for male and female civilian partisans kits with arm bits for civilian poses over camp followers (which started out as a COMPLETE JOKE AND FRANKLY SHOULD STAY THAT WAY😤).

    Partisans kits will not have weird sitting/kneeling poses which are only useable for things like “doing laundry” unlike camp followers which would, and it gets right to real thing over 75% percent folks actually want when they are asking for the camp followers: silver bayonet character figures. (Field surgeons are not that verstial and frankly could be covered by adding a bone saw part to a command sprue for the apron wearing engineer, while clergy could get done in a male partisans box and have better parts for subject matter.)

  • Yronimos Whateley

    I think I agree completely, Brian!

    My only reservation kind of depends I suppose on what's meant by "camp followers" - if it applies to the whole range of non-combatants who follow behind the armies to provide support ranging from transporting supplies to acting as priests and doctors and the selling whatever soldiers are willing to spend their money on ("like drunken sailors!"), to reporters, to servants and family, to the thieves and criminals who exploit the destabilization and destruction caused by hostile armies marching into an area, to the lookie-loos who come out to gawk, then it seems like an interesting subject to cover.

    Sort of like those paintings depicting the people who came out to picnic at the Battle of Bull Run, as if one of the bloodiest wars in the history of the world were a spectator sport.... 

    Such a subject would have only the most limited use, though, to wargamers, especially if it were to rely on the gawking and sitting poses depicted here:  as scatter terrain and scenic items, they're great... but otherwise? 

    Give them dynamic poses comparable to proper wargaming figures, and include the weaponry to make them rebels, partisans, militia, defenders against marauding armies, etc., etc., and you've got something more versatile. 

    And that would be something that looks like the Partisans I: French Resistance set, which seems to have been a successful set.  And that, I think, is pretty close to (if not exactly) the right direction to go:  a set that can be used for mere non-combatant civilians or even a very specific definition of 'camp follower' (laundry women or whatever), if that's your thing, but also something that can be used as a source of non-uniformed combatants of any sort, or, in this case, adventurers and heroes.

    The more versatile and wargame-friendly the "civilian" set, the better! 

    Poses that are too specifically non-combatant - sitting, gawking, laundry-washing, etc. - are not versatile enough to cut it for general-purpose wargaming purposes!

    The only thing I'd add to a Partisans-style set to make it "perfect" would be a few more non-combatant bits:  say, the cameras and such for combat photographers, for example, or that bone-saw for the combat medic....

     

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