Digital cost


  • So we had this linked in the thread on Dakka. 
    https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-atlantic-digital-irish-chieftain-256822

    I'm not the target audience for the stl files so won't be purchasing those. But for those of you who will be, what do you think of the price? 

    I wonder how much the printed versions will go for. 



  • If I'm reading it right, US$5 to get the files that allow you to print out as many of those as you want seems pretty good. Commercially, printed minis cost far more than any other method because of the time it takes, but for home use where time is NOT usually money and your material costs are minimal (maybe a couple of dollars per 28mm figure, but hours to print one). And the capital cost of setting up your own 3D printer too, but that gets defrayed across everything you make. Budget printers that will do the job (especially for terrain prints) can be found for a few hundred dollars, so it comes down to how sweet you want your mini to look. 

    There may be other costs such as site subscription, I'm not sure there. (EDIT: Appears to be no other costs)

    One other consideration with a commercial print is that you shouldn't have to cope with poor prints - same as with other printing. 


  • @Mark Dewis So $5 for a single STL is a good price? That is good to know. If these become popular than hopefully several shops will cary them on Etsy to offer some competetive print prices.


  • Even $5 for one printing of that figure would probably be a fair price, considering. But they're selling you the file that lets you print as many as you want (on a non-commercial license. You aren't allowed to SELL them, just print them off for personal use). Divide the price by however many of them you plan to print and that's the real cost of the item. 

    Anyone selling the prints, or castings off the prints on Etsy, is breaching the license:

    "Digital files sold on MyMiniFactory through the digital file store have a strict non-commercial, personal use only license. You shall not share, sub-license, sell, rent, host, transfer, or distribute in any way the digital or 3D printed versions of this object, nor any other derivative work of this object in its digital or physical format (including - but not limited to - remixes of this object, and hosting on other digital platforms). The objects may not be used in any way whatsoever in which you charge money, collect fees, or receive any form of remuneration. The Standard Digital File Store License overrides any other licensing option on this page (in particular: no remixing and no commercial use allowed)."

    A commercial license would be MUCH more expensive.


  • @Mark Dewis Hmmm... ok. They said they were working out something to make prints available. Guess they are still working on that. 


  • This seems to be a test for the digital storefront, nothing more.

    that being said, it is the full irish chieftain set as previewed, and does actually look to be purchasable.

    $5 for a single character pack is fair for the 3D print files market. usually averages between 5 and 10.


  • Consider how the value proposition will differ across STL types. $5 might seem steep for a single character you'll print once or twice, but what about $5 for an infantryman you might print 20 or 100 times over?


  • @fodzilla I don't know about that, since I don't have my own printer. However if I had a printer I might for example print out out the left arms and body from that STL repeatedly for using up other chainmail sleeved bits I have laying around the house.


  • @fodzilla yep, every individual has to make that call based on their own situation, just as they do for plastics, metal and resin purchases.

    @Brian Van De Walker  exactly! It's a set of parts, not just a single mini (you can even print it without the puddle base). You can also possibly tweak the scaling, to make height variation and help with parts matching.


  • 30 file between unsupported and supported, plus merged figures. $5 is what it looks to be.


  • Just to add a. Tiny bit to the discussion we have a look at the price for virtual army bof with the Gurkhas. Five bodies, seven heads and a variety of arms for $12 seems very reasonable to me. 

    https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-gurkhas-257012

     

     


  • Sorry Red Bee, I don't really agree with your calculation method...

    If I compare the public price and the number of characters in a box, I obtain other results. The average price of a minifig is, today, less than 1,50 € (c. 1,54 USD).

    Per unit : German 14-18 Infantry or Panzer Lehr, 1,14 € (1,17 USD) ; French Infantry, 1,02 € (1,05 USD) ; French Resistance, 1,06 € (1,09 USD), etc.

    Even at the full price of 1,50 €, five gurkhas should cost me 7 or 8 € (7,21 or 8,24 USD), not ?

    It's just too expensive.


  • @Pierre Lerdou-Udoy 

    It's not 5 figures. Its all the parts in STL format and supported options. Which you can effectively print ad infinitum and make X number of ghurkas, where X is exactly the number you need.


  • You can make more than five unique models, and print as many identical models as you wish. plus the uses for conversions.


  • I suppose if you only intend to print the file once that makes sense, but unlike the boxes set you can print the sprue as many times as you want. Most of. The boxes have one sprue with five figures to build. Buying the StL you get five minis per sprue with slightly less options for arms than a standard box, but you still get five miniatures per sprue for 1/3 the price of a box  that seems fair to me.


  • @William Redford @Pierre Lerdou-Udoy Its pricey, if you don`t have your own machine, and the 500 followers, to subscribe at 10 $ a month is the way to go, but look how unbalenced it is. Say I only want this month the cargo Sifi nothing else , the rest of the files are no good for me. Its all right saying print as many as you wan`t bargain. But home printers may do terrain they won`t give the quallity of a plastic figure you buy in your box set and we all deserve that. For those lucky to have ultra quallity printers, why a 500 only Tribe, members base, is this just a test, because its a drop in the ocean for people who want to subscibe. When this started I said please don`t creat a tier market of have`s and have nots I was delighted for those who wished to print to enjoy that (I`m all for spares etc being out there for everyone.) Figures  as smart as produced in plastic will need better machines to print  it doesn`t look yet as  if this is sorted , and as yet I`m still searching to find Printing costs for all items for those of us who will never print. Belive me I want to see printed items sold to all who want them as STL`s,  Patroon (Tribes) files, or printed models at fair competative prices I want WGA to grow strong from this and please all members of the forum. For once I think the saying "Can`t please everyone" is wrong with thought you could.   


  • To all. I don't have a definite opinion on the matter. I consider it is important "to play with cards on the table" (il est important de jouer cartes sur table).

    I just thing that the real cost price (per unit) is very difficult to estimate. The crisis teaches me to count differently : downstream work, printer, filament/resin, energy, time, cleaning, maintenance, (lack of) skills...

    I'm pretty pragmatic. With a box, you know exactly what you are paying for. You are free to buy, or not. The work was done upstream, by professionals : if the quality is there, it's OK. Otherwise, I'm the only judge.

    Just because my budget is not infinitely expandable, it's important for me to have a clear view and to stay free (no subscription).

    I almost only buy historical minis, and the research work must be impeccable : if I lack the minimum combat equipment on a German WW2 mini, I don't buy ; if the Roman legionary wears "Hollywood equipment", same thing.

    To stay in the metaphor of the card game, I pass my turn (je passe mon tour), for now, anyway.

    Agur, adiskide onak (so long, good friends).


  • @Geoff Maybury one can always try bringing the STLs to a local print shop to have them printed in higher quality then a home machine, and without the start up costs.

    The detail difference between plastic and print is almost non existent. The machines that make the plastic moulds doesn't run in unlimited definition, 3D prints have or will surpass the CNC machines that make the moulds.


  • @William Ings they already do actually. You can only make cutters so small. The key with plastics is making the detail have high relief so that you create the impression of more detail. Although, to be honest, there is detail and there is detail and some people have some weird notions of what detail is. I've seen someone exclaim that a Perry plastic was incredibly highly detailed but what they actually meant was that the sculpt was crisp (lots of flat areas and high relief areas and easy to paint) but it wasn't loaded down with details. On the flip side, I see some producers with figures just full of "stuff" on every spare square mm and it creates the effect of messiness to me. I guess I just did a rant. Oops, sorry. But yes, 3D prints can actually be more detailed than hips figures. 


  • Re: digital file pricing. I think some of you have got it right in that you're not comparing apples-to-apples with a metal or resin or plastic figures. We're not selling a figure in this scenario. We're selling you the means to make that figure (or parts) an infinite # of times. Will some things you only need one of - sure. But in that case maybe it's not the right format to purchase in for you and you're better off buying a blister pack from somewhere. But in this case, yes, if you buy a file that has five bodies, 10 heads, 12 arms, etc. you're not buying 5 figures you're buying potentially a regiment if you want to print that many!

    Where the per figure pricing becomes much more relevant is when we sell physically printed products. At that point the apples-to-apples kicks in and you'll have to decide if our printed offering measures up to a comparable figure in metal, resin, or plasic based on cost, aesthetics, personal choice, and the like. 

     


  • @Pierre Lerdou-Udoy

    Clearly you have never bought paper mini PDFs, cause the STL 3D print thing is basically the same when it comes to the basic setup costs:

    Printer cost (ie most expensive part at $200-$500 plus, but once you have one your likely going to use it for several things, not just WA minis).

    Resource costs (what you minis are going to be made out of and what you should really be looking at when it comes to figure costs. That said resin costs varies for 3D printing but $15 for a 1kg bottle of resin is the best deal I have seen in what’s admittedly a very shallow search. The amount of risen used prefigure is going to be the end cost factor not the STL file which you should really think of as being more like a mold to make miniatures).   

    Print file costs ($5-$10 is actually a very good deal for a collection of printout files, even for paper minis,  remember your buying what amounts to miniature molds here not an overpriced sprue off ebay with these).

    There are other costs with 3D Printing like setting up the ventilation so you don’t die, time, etc. But the 3 above are the main costs when everything goes smoothly and it really is more of another hobby.   


  • Dear Brian - and all of you,

    Your words make sense, and I understand the arguments put forward. No problem. You are talking about a dream of "free access for all", a kind of modern ideal for the hobbyists. The reality I see, all around, now...

    Currently, 3D printing at home remains a luxury, at least in France. Very few people own a good printer (rapid and economic), and users feedbacks are not very good, today, on most dedicated websites. Opinions are very divided.

    3D printing only replaces, in part, the molding or foundry techniques of my generation (I'm 50). This concerns very few people. It's very different for the industrial environment, where people's qualifications and mass production make 3D printing very interesting.

    In rural areas, far from the big towns, there are no printers (shops, services or associations) that are easily accessible. No friendly and direct help for us, "poor (wo)men, lost in an ocean of ignorance"... If you want a good product, it is therefore necessary to go through professionals, physically or on website, who will take a marging (plus taxes and postage), which increases the prices.

    Honestly, 3D printing is far from being "a simple, affordable and democratic option", today. Too early ?

    I hope I am clear enough. My intention is not to argue, but my words can sometimes be awkward in English : pardon my clumsiness.

    So long...


  • A box of plastic costs me about AUD$50-60 with postage. That's 5 month's subscription. Plus it often takes an extra 3-6 months for new plastic to get to the Australian warehouse.

    For me, it was a no-brainer to sign on as a founder. Even if I only want one or two items per month, it's likely to save me money. When I DO get a printer it will largely be for terrain items. The alien trees and SF cargo files alone justify the $11 I just spent, although the Gurkhas, alien heads and farm animals will see use. Various parts from the Damned and Kobolds are also likely to see use as aliens of some variety.


  • And I'll add this thought. Yes, a printer is a capital cost, but so are paints and tools. It just comes down to what you want or need for your version of the hobby. You can spend more on an airbrush than a 3D printer.

    Time is also an expense. For many jobs, especially terrain, a printer will happily churn out finished items that you would otherwise need to sink hours of focus into. Printers can also fabricate stands, bases and tools.


  • @Pierre Lerdou-Udoy My friend you are very young at 50 I`m 68 young at heart, and as my friends know willing to have a go at any thing. I don`t think that the print people understand our  as they see it lack of interest.  I want them to suceed and have a good product. But it does`nt work for every one it wouldn`t for me. Besides the total lack of any room to put one, I don`t want to ever waste time and money by printing poor quality.  I do not object to buying printed items at fair prices  however most items I would like to buy end up Unavailable as "Patroon" or to dam dear when postage ends up 3-4 times more than the item. In this country like Pierre, printing companys are rare and they do not like you asking to print a file from your own STL.  From the start we asked who would print for those that would never print and how much would it cost, thats all we ever wanted. Cheers all.    


  • @Geoff Maybury here there are plenty of print places. Etsy especially Is a treasure trove. The only issues I have had getting stuff is size. They all advertise as "D&D size" or 28 / 30/ 32/ or 35.... but when it comes... 

    I opt for 28 and it comes smaller than the 25mm stuff I have... I go for 30 or 32 and it comes nearly 3 heads higher than my 32mm guys. I have had some that come perfectly sized ... but more that come too large. Being too large has been more of an issue for me than too small. And unfortunately the only way I can know before hand is by asking the seller... and I have found a lot to be unresponsive on that end, so... I rarely buy 3D prints any more. I still do of course but not as frequently. 


  • @William Redford Had that tee shirt to Bill i go mostly now for equipment ansd vehicles and make sure I ask 1/56th, still been caught out though some send 1/50th collecters scale for Lorries. I trust Shapways for scale.Go check the Gurkhas post.


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