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French and Indian War

In reference to WGA French and Indian War troop kits:
  • JTam

    The French and Indian War saw the French and British battle for control of a continent from 1754 to 1763.  

    Extraordinarily hard men fought in savage conditions.   

    The wars consequences were far reaching and profound.  

    At a more micro level the war served as a training ground for many of the giants of the American Revolution.   (Much like the Mexican War for the American Civil War - although that's a topic for another thread).  COL Washington would have a very mixed war in the French and Indian War but the experience shaped him to forge a Nation.

    The legacy of the French and Indian War still lives on in the US Army to today. 

    "Stand To" (100% security) is still pulled at BMNT (Before Morning Nautical Twilight) and EENT (End Evening Nautical Twilight) as that's "when the "French and Indians attack."

    Rogers' Rules are still found at the front of the US Army Ranger Handbook:

    The US Army Rangers are named after Rogers' Rangers.  

    What's the point of all this.  A WGA line for the French and Indian war would be most welcome.  It would fill the 200 odd year gap between the Renaissance and Napoleonic Wars if nothing else ;)

    I hope others will share their thoughts and/or materials on the French and Indian War here.

  • JTam

    The French and Indian War is also an excellent alternate setting for "Silver Bayonet."

    Picture Daniel Day Lewis, COL Washington, and Robert Rogers fighting French Vampyre and Native Shapeshifters.  

    As Daniel Day Lewis' love is carried into the darkness by a terrible creature of the night he cries "Stay Alive!  No matter what I WILL FIND YOU!"  (I also like to tell the Wife this when I drop her off at Walmart.)

    There's a great thread going on about Silver Bayonet on this forum here:

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/78263/the-silver-bayonet-projects

    Also, Brigade Games has some new, incredible miniatures for the French and Indian War.

    (Yes, he is holding the White Hair's heart.)

    Blast the Last of the Mohicans score as loud as possible while painting these.  

     

  • VS

    A really nice idea. I would certainly buy some indian boxes and some trapers, if there where any.
    the Northstar line Muskets & Tomahawks, and the Crucible Crush Flint and Feather line are great, but some plastic boxes would be really nice.

     

  • William Redford

    I would buy a box. Looks useful in conversions and would be a fun kit...

     

    but I also like cake...

    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5b7dcd63-fedd-437d-a9a2-179cfb8e7d43

     

  • JTam

    @Vitor Soares 

    I've seen a lot of interest in kits for various tribes.

  • JTam

    @William Redford 

    I had to cut and paste that link.  I was hoping for Cake's "(Going) The Distance."

    https://youtu.be/F_HoMkkRHv8

     

  • William Redford

    @JTam posting from my phone... weird phone issues

  • DB

    I definitely want FIW stuff. I already have Muskets and Tomahawks for that period and I know that Blood and Plunder is expanding into the 18th century as well. This leads me to a general observation which is that apart from ACW there is very little of the North American conflicts in plastics which I would like to see change. Especially in light of the FIW stuff that I would like as well as the various conflicts addressed by Blood and Steel (Mexican American War, Indian Wars, Spanish American war, etc...)

  • JTam

    @Daniel Broaddus 

    Fully agree. 

    The Mexican War is of particular interest to me as well.

    I posted some pics of the Fort Bliss Museum Mexican War Display here:

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/53697/museumhistoric-sites-displays-photo-thread

     

  • Benjamin Hayward

    I'd definitely snag some.  I have my eye on Warlord's Colonial Militia and Woodlands Tribes minis for gaming in a Weird 1700s setting.

  • BVD

    Well, I might pick some sprues up to play with if I find them interesting, but when it comes to SYW conflicts I would rather see East Indian Front (which would also be great Silver Bayonet setting).

     

  • Steven StGeorges

    I did choose "Cake" 'cause I played a lot of games related to the French-British Colonial Wars (as we are calling the French & Indian War in France as small part of the Seven Years' War) ... since I am living in Quebec and not far away from historical reenactment sites like Chambly or Carignan. 

    BUT if placing them as part of some earlier time period of The Silver Bayonet setting, it could be a more interesting idea since French settlers were depending on Native support, and adding Native creatures to the mix could have had some major influence in the war.. French colonists were feared thanks of their mastery of the "Petite Guerre" ("Hit and Run" tactics.. as depicted in Michael Mann's The Last of the Mohicans and later in Mel Gibson' The Patriot movie but from an Continental point-of-view, read British or American) so a valliant rearguard tactic (unlike Montcalm's, more used to European way of war, also known as the "Great War" according to Clauswitz) against a far numerous opponent. Adding mythical Native-American creatures could have been a big big game-changer: for instance, the British could have been unable to build Oswego fort on Lake Ontario cause of the Gaasyendietha, some kind of Dragon living in the depths of Lake Ontario and known for roaming the Great Lakes.. 

  • Bill Thomas

    Definitely in for cake... always... Thursday is "cake day" in my house FYI 🤣

    Also would be definitely in for some more figures, especially tribes... Firelock Games (amongst others) make some great braves, but they're kind of hard to find... I'm a big fan of the "Leatherstocking Tales" and I'm always adding characters to this collection ;)

    “Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.”

  • Grumpy Gnome

    Being originally from Upstate New York the F&IW holds a special interest for me. Gaming this period and location is on my to-do list and I already have some minis and terrain waiting to be built... however more would be better!

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • GM

    @Benjamin Hayward Eh, seems we all like "Weird Wars", American Civil, WW2, Korea, Nam, are my dabbles.

  • MD

    Weren't the old Wargames Factory Revolutionary War kits (especially the Indian one) designed to go cover this as well? Warlord still publish them.

  • MD

    This page:

    https://us.warlordgames.com/collections/french-indian-war-1754-1763

    Edit: small mistake - while the WGF kits were pitched to be usable for 1754-63, their main focus was 1776-83. But the Woodland Indian and Colonial Militiamen kits were very suitable, and designed for both wars.

    https://us.warlordgames.com/collections/american-war-of-independence-1776-1783/products/colonial-militia-men-plastic-box

    French Uniforms had changed the most in 20 years - most of the British uniform changes aren't obvious, or are a matter of paint colour (such as red vs white breeches).

  • Grumpy Gnome

    While not all of the older Wargames Factory figures are of the same quality, most still retain a certain “mannequin” look to them. In this case some are perfect for background in a Fallout 4 Boston setting mind you. Mrs. GG and I quite like the old WF Woodland Native Americans and I have some waiting in my backlog.

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

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  • MD

    The cake is a lie.

  • AL

    French and Indian war is a fantastic wargaming period with some really good rules available. I have used Land of the Free many times as well as Flint and Feather and always had fun. It is one of the few periods that work great for skirmish or larger battles. There were momentous battles and small raids.

    I also like cake as long as I have been taking my metformin pills so both would get my vote.

  • Grumpy Gnome

    @Allan Lougheed  Metformin for the win.

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

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  • JTam

    Warlord Games having a nice Black Friday / Clearance sale currently.  Among available goodies:

  • JTam

    Couldn't help myself:

  • JTam

    Hmmh..... Who did it better?

    Or:

  • Grumpy Gnome

    I think both sculptors are better than me and it is hard for me to say one is definitively better than the other. I would need to paint up both and then try to decide which to keep.

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

    https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

  • JTam

    @Grumpy Gnome 

    I've generally been very pleased with Brigade Games minis.  I think the Warlord line is a lot more variable in quality.  (Some metals very good, others less so).  

    Some higher res pictures of the Warlord miniatures would be nice.

    Still, having a dilemma on which Last of the Mohicans inspired miniatures to get is a nice problem to have.

  • ADC

    The "American" part of SYW has always been a bit neglected by most people (well, until M. Mann's movie). there were some tv miniseries (one with SWAT's Steve Forrest)and some movies, but generally it was seen as a minor theatre. The Brigade Games' seems nicer, pity for women's faces, perhaps one could replace them with some from Statuesque minis or Hasslefree's, that have better proportions, and don't remember Rose Klebb from 007!

  • JTam

    I think the entire SYW is forgotten by most people.  It kind of seems like a prelude for wars people actually are interested in.  It also SUPERFICIALY didn't seem to have much history altering results.  (You know, unless you and your country now speak English instead of Spanish.)

    The Brigade Games females are a little hatchet face perhaps.  But there are very few female miniatures that wouldn't benefit from a Statuesque Minis head swap.  The bob to long hair join and conversion would be a real pain though.

    Also, I was this days old when I learned Frau Farbissina was based of an older, specific Bond character.  (I've seen most of the older Bond movies...but not "From Russia With Love."  Great theme song though.)

  • PL

    Ene Anaiak (my Brothers),

    I suppose that the acronym SYW means Seven Years War... Right ? La Guerre de sept Ans, in French.

    The English were much wiser and more insightful than us, French. Not giving ourselves the means to keep our possessions in America was, I believe, the great error of the royal policy. When you look at a map, our possessions ranged from the Saint-Laurent to Saint-Louis, through the Great Lakes, Missouri and Mississippi. Even admitting that we would have lost these colonies (Canada and Louisiane) later, a quarter (or a third) of the United States should speak French today !

    Our trappers and soldiers were often on pretty good terms with the Natives : as French women were rare "au Canada", our men usually married Native American women. There are many Béarnais, Gascons, Occitans and Basques in the first "French" families of Québec (Marines from the Atlantic Coast, soldiers from the infantry Régiments Béarn, Languedoc and Guyenne).

    A Franco-Indian country would be an interesting Alternate History area to develop. Our great Voltaire was a fool when he said : "we only lost a few acres of snow" !

    A good and old (80s) TV serie to watch : Colorado (for you, Centennial I believe), with the excellent Robert Conrad (as the French trapper Pasquinel, father of two "sang-mêlés"-"halfblood"). Honestly, there are too few Native American warriors in 28mm !

    Adio, Anaiak (So long, Brothers).

  • Grumpy Gnome

    One of my favorite “What ifs...” is “What If Napoleon had not bent to the sugar plantation owners and reinstated slavery in the French Caribbean Islands?”  Then the army he sent under his brother would not have been detoured to put down the   revolt inspired by re-enslaving African French people and  avoided all the diseases that eventually destroyed this army. Instead they would have gone to resecuring New France in North America. Even if they failed to recapture Canada they could have then headed West in partnership with Spain. 

    How the USA would have dealt with that would be anyone’s guess.

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  • ADC

    @Grumpy Gnome I never toughts about this alternate history, perhaps the french would've sold anyway Louisiana to Jefferson, or otherwise could've allied themselves with the USA to distract UK 's resources from Europe. Don't forget that one of the means of the ill fated expedition of Madison's army in 1812 was Canada's conquest, it didn't end too well, expecially for the idiotic idea that militias could've won against one of the best professional army of the world(plus some good canadian soldiers!).

    P.s. not all known that Nappy sold also SPANISH Louisiana to the US, so estabilishing a grudge btw the new republic of Mexico and the USA, that would've then excalated the tension til the war of 1845.

  • Grumpy Gnome

    @Alessio De Carolis Despite America’s failure to secure Canada, remember militias had stood up to a professional army not that long before... personally I think the Canadian militia played a key role, especially the French speaking Canadian militia, in keeping Canada British. 

    Napoleon created some... unique... politics when it comes to the relationship between Spanish and French possessions. 

    Here is some more detailed academic information regarding Napoleon and The New World, which in some areas differs from my previous understanding of the situation, for those that may be curious. Fascinating period with a lot of potential for things Tomate gone very differently.

    https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-hccc-worldhistory2/chapter/napoleon-and-the-new-world/

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  • JTam

    @Pierre Lerdou-Udoy 

    Yes, SYW is the Seven Years War.  My apologies,  I deliberately try and avoid abreviations but I slip up sometimes. 

    France never had a real chance in the French Indian War. 

    The population disparity was too great.  It was like watching the brave Crusader Kingdoms trying to hold on. We like to believe quality trumps quantity, but it rarely happens in real life.  

    It didn't help that there was a huge ocean to cross for resupply and the British Navy had some secret sauce at the time that made them near undefeatable.  (What was the secret sauce?  Hard to pin down. But the British Navy used to run off rum, the lash, and sodomy.  They gave up the first two and are no longer really a potent force so I'm guessing it was either the rum or the lash.)

    France did do an impressive job of leveraging the locals.  Executing the classic Green Beret mission hundreds of years earlier.  

  • Grumpy Gnome

    I still believe the French had a chance but admittedly it would have been a small one.

    And I do believe that history has shown quality can at times best quantity. That said, battles are usually won by soldiers/sailors. Wars are usually won by logistics. 

    The successes of the British Royal Navy have always amazed me. When I researched them, I did notice other navies had more successes than often discussed online but yes for quite some time they did appear almost unbeatable. Of course the Dutch can say the same before that.

    One thing the British Royal Navy has for sure had, that the Dutch lacked, is excellent marketing. At least in English written media. 😉

     

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  • GM

    @Grumpy Gnome History my good Gnome friend, will always be wrote by the aleged winner😉.

  • Grumpy Gnome

    True@Geoff Maybury... especially in their own language.

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

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  • PL

    Hello JTam... No problem for the acronym SYW : I hesitated only 4 or 5 seconds ! I improve my English with you, that's great.

    Grumpy Gnome, mein guter Freund, the question of the "window of opportunity" for the French culture in America is very interesting.

    I don't think it would have been in the 1760-70s : too few and poorly supported, it was over for us. The French Canadians and their Red Brothers fought with courage and made the right choice, working with the British Crown (they have conserved the French culture, that's great).

    Louis XVI could have negociated a special status for French Louisiana (from the Great Lakes to modern state of Louisiana) with the Insurgents, in return from his military alliance. There's a window around Saratoga. By the 1780-90s, Britain was weakened. We, French, were victorious, but ruined !

    The window is, I think, between 1792 and 1805. The ideas of the Revolution were exportable and very exciting for many Central and South-Americans or Caribbeans (Créoles-Criollos, Métis-Mestizos and slaves). Spain was weak and the influence of the American Republic was still fragile.

    A kind of "Alliance of the Sister Republics", against Spain, backed with Revolutionary France, could have created an interesting alternate reality. I remember that Toussaint Louverture (Saint-Domingue/Haïti) and Francisco de Miranda (Venezuela) were French generals of the Revolution...

    The principles of "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité", applied and maintained in Mexico (California, New-Mexico, Texas, Nevada), Louisiana and Florida, Cuba, "Bolivia" and Venezuela, etc. could have powerfully changed the lines. It was necessary, for that, to weaken Spain even more... This was the case a generation later, but without France.

    I think that the French coup-d'Etat and invasion of Spain (in 1808), went less or more in this direction, but Napoleon had forgotten the ideals of the Revolution (uprisings in Spain, Bavaria and Tyrol). HE WAS ONLY A TYRANT ("contre nous, de la Tyrannie, l'étendard sanglant est levé...").

  • Grumpy Gnome

    You make some excellent points@Pierre Lerdou-Udoy 

    Ah Napoleon. A military genius and political disappointment.

    Many Americans know a bit about “Lafayette” from basic American War of Indepence history learned in High School... but It is really quite interesting to learn more about Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette and what he did after the AWI. From writing the French “Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen” to refusing to serve Napoleon, a really interesting fellow. Now imagine a French Republic with him as President...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_du_Motier,_Marquis_de_Lafayette

     

     

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  • PL

    Thank you, Comrade. I agree with you : Lafayette was a very great and interesting character.

    At the same time Monarchist, without excess, and moderate but sincere Republican, abolitionist and good soldier, loyal and idealist, he was a man of great stature, like his mentor and friend George Washington.

    Still young during the Révolution, he only lacked popular fervor, and a taste of intrigue... In France, the destiny of a great man was measured on the cutting edge of the Guillotine (nicknames : "la Louisette" or the Equalizer - l'Egalisatrice).

  • ADC

    Sadly the bad influence of Josephine and her crique on Napoleon wasted a perfect opportunity for the french to estabilish a strong grip on the Caribbean. If France had choose to support the various revolutions in the area,probabilly either Spain and British influence would've been compromised, and with the US too weak for being more than a nuisance, France surely would've gained some precious allies in the Caribbean/South America.

  • PL

    Don Alessio, I have the same analysis as yours.

    "Tous les Hommes naissent et demeurent libres et égaux en droits et en dignité", or "All men are born and remain free and equal in rights and dignity" : that's the ground idea of the French Revolution. It had to be applied, for better or for worse.

    It would have been necessary to play the honest people against the landowners (les planteurs), and the Republican ideal against the power of the monarchs (and tyrants).

    Napoleon betrayed the Revolution : he took himself for a king. England was his guillotine !

  • ADC

    @Pierre Lerdou-Udoy Himself was his doom, trying to chomp too many european countries, ironically once he said : "With bayonets you can do a lot of things, except sit on them". Well in Spain happened this.... Furthermore, as, ironically, Hitler , he was more focused on Europe's matters, and neglected other teathers, and this was very harmful for both of them, also if after all is ingenerous paragon him with the austrian madman.

  • PL

    You say the truth, Alessio : the parallel is obvious for me. Except that Napoléon, Emperor, screwed up generous ideals, while Hitler propagated "stinky" ideas. The result is almost the same for their victims.

    Mort aux tyrans ! To those of yesterday as well as to those of today...

  • MD

    And yet neither of those tyrants were overthrown by their people. That only happens rarely, and never if the people in general are doing okay. 

    (I do not count dynastic civil wars. That's just nobles arguing over which dude gets the job.)

    Napoleon, Hitler, Ceasar, Charles I, Oliver Cromwell, Josef Stalin, Francisco Franco, Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin. None deposed in a popular uprising of righteous rage. Cromwell, Stalin and Franco were never overthrown and died in their beds.

    Charles I comes closest, but the English Parliament of the time was still basically an upper class institution. The English Civil War has more in common with the Wars of the Roses than the French Revolution, with added religious conflict. 

  • Grumpy Gnome

    Some new Last of the Mohican movie inspired minis on the way from North Star.

    https://www.beastsofwar.com/news/north-star-new-muskets-tomahawks-american-revolution-minis/

    Home of the Grumpy Gnome

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  • ADC

    @Grumpy Gnome These seems really beutiful minis, I hope they'll give justice to the protagonists, this period is really fascinating (as long you don't live in it!). Plus these minis could be used also for other scenarios, not only for the SYW, but, at least civilians & indians, for the war of Indipendence and the Pontiac war.

  • JTam

    @Grumpy Gnome 

    Wow.  They look good.

    Does North Star "do" all the Oathmark, Frostgrave, and Stargrave plastics?  Or do they just sell them?

    If they produce plastics it might raise a small possibility of plastics. 

  • JTam

    So I've obtained the "Painting War French and Indian War".

    It was some Black Friday Treasure:

    https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/83866/black-friday-cyber-monday-hobby-treasure

    Index:

    Painting techniques:

    The author/artist has a bolder, chunkier style than a lot of the other authors.

    Special projects:

    Some examples of specific miniatures:

     

  • MD

    Seems to be from the Wargames Foundry school. A bit cruder than Kev Dallimore, but servicable.

  • JTam

    The Warlord Games' Black Powder supplement "A Dark and Bloody Ground":

    Index:

    Dense with history and text:

    Discussing French prospects...

    Describing the combatants, uniforms, and appearance..

    Describing the savagery of the conflict....

    Beautifully illustrated:

    Full of battles and scenarios:

     

    This was clearly a labor of love by the author.  Highly recommended.

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